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Downloads Home » Recorded Games » Why the mongols are the best civilization.

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Why the mongols are the best civilization.

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Version: The Conquerors 1.0c
Not sure what else needs to be said?! Except that "the Cavalry Archer is king" on HARD difficulty setting.
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emurikaw TrevorusKhan,

You better add the following to your list...

-Fully upgraded longbowmen (You seem to think range will always win aside from speed)
-skrimishers (Like around 30 at a time)
-Light cav (Not in the small numbers the computer sends you)

The mangudai can outrun skrims, but will have trouble killing them.

[Edited on 01/03/06 @ 07:32 PM]

so_fcuking_lame First I want to say that i was just surfing the net and register here JUST to post in this topic ... interesting really.
Second - I didnt have the AOK (Conq) installed on my machine at the moment( in fact haven't played in an year or so - got my play time with AOE couple of years ago - but believe me - it was enough to know what i am talking about) so couldn't watch the reply. So excuse me if i can be inaccurate about the exact problem or if i say something said before ( on other topics ).
Not having watched the reply, I have to agree with most of the people that the opinion ( and tactics ) Trevorus Khan suggested sound kinda noobish - even only for the vs computer setting lol . BUT - Mongol is still the best civilization in AOE! Especially with the expansion set. And to not sound hollow here is why i think so:
1. Strong points - Castle, castle science ( forgot the name - i think it was drill ),cheap(in long terms) light cavalry, Herbal medicine(!!!), fast rams and swords combo , the rest is clear...
2. My tactics were simple - early harass - can use light cavalry ( this can be tough for guys with poor micro , they die fast if unchecked) - which can ensure your castle rush (ofcourse). Then castle offence ( in territory - look for the stone first then gold - u did explore the map very very early on right ? ). Start as close to the enemy as possible. Produce only enough mangudai for defence at the time - dont send them not upgraded - they are costly. Use light cavalry instead. When you hit to their castles - probably their will be some trebuchet vs trebuchet skirmishes but with the mangudais on your side - you can quickly kill enemy trebuchets with a few shots and pull back out of range ot enemy castle. Put the mangudai in castle again - and herbal medicine !!! - will quickly come to use . After you destroy castle close on. He can kill your trebuchets too , but !! - with a lot more heavy losses.
Different scenarios can come up here - paladins (muahahahahah - this will quickly eat his gold out - the only one time that i really have seen palas work is SUPRISED mass palas rushes - and it can work only against noobish players). Elephants - same as the palas - but even more costly and less treat after all. Mamelucks - when you see them just split your mangudais in all directions ( micro again) - all he can do is to split too - then, if needed, you can come back to castle - in this case(only in this case) mamelucks are harder to micromanage and can quickly fall, longbowmen - not have a chance - test it your self if you dont believe me - in all aspects - numbers or money ... So just stand and fight. In fact chinese cho-ko-no(or was it nu ? ) do more dmg to your mangudai - tested it again. Gunpowder ( Conq's and janissaries too) - same like other archers - not having a chance - at range they are quite inaccurate...and you fight at range). In fact the only range unit that can overdo mangudai is surprisingly - lol - hunnic horse archers - and that because of the enormous discount in price at imperial age. Huscarl - same with mamelucks but easier. Infact it is more wise to mass attack your castle ignoring you but it is not quite resource wise. Can use an onager or two if having problems with huscarls - great counter! Mass pikes - not having a chanse - you even have a special upgrade against 'em. But dont get cocky - watch your mangudais. Onagers - in any case, even if they are only a few - first send one mangudai (and afcourse use spread formation) - he is a dead meat anyway - and after ALL of onagers shoot ( they will) close quickly to them and they are only a piece of scrap already. AND - they cost a lot. A lot more than your mangudais. Worst matchup - skirmishers - try to separate if you want to fight, but better just skip them - they can only damage your mangudais and nothing else so if you refuse to fight(and they are slow)- they are loss of resources ( not much though) and !! - population limit - which is more important. They can still come in hand for the enemy though - in the castle & trebuchet vs castle & trebuchet AND mangudais ;) battles - guarding enemy trebuchets - in this case use an onager or two - even if it falls ( most probably). Will save time , nerves and is even resource wise.
But everything happens - your opponent can be better than you ( there is always someone better than you somewhere out there - always remember that!) so your castle offence may not work. So let the fun begin ;) - harass , harass and ... mmm .. harass. Use your full upgraded hussars in the fights too - they are cheap especially in the end and mongols still have the nice HP bonus to them! Villi, infantry even horses ... watch only for skirmishers - as i said already - u still can kill them but not cheaply. At the same time dont offence - stay cool and quiet - only harass - if you can with 1 stack of mangudais- great! , if u cant - make'em 2 stacks. At the same time upgr your swords and rams ( thats right - not trebuchets - they can work only against a lesser enemy) and - of course - castle science ... when full your rams move at the speed of infantry - with 10+ full u do wonders . So when the moment comes ( full upgrades ) mass 'em ( even if you have to scrap 1 of your stack of mangudais - thats right, u heard me ! ; but still leave 1 stack ). Surprise at population limit and even if he recovers it will most probably be too late .
I won't speak about villies - i think it is clear how important are they - to you and to the enemy. Don't ever - and i mean ever - neglect your economy , farms and so on.
So in the end we fight (another) economy war and it is all about that after all.And although it needs a little micro skills, thats where mongol shines - harass - pull back - then do it again, at the end surprise with mass FAST rams. It is psychological war too - in fact most of my victories the games were far from over but the guys just surrender ( they didn't have much fun , i did have though:) ). And thats another plus of the mongols( for the best civ pool ;) - best has different meanings) - they are just fun to play - and this is the most important thing for a game.
I think this can go good for the defence of the Mongol civ ...

[Edited on 01/16/06 @ 10:45 AM]

Free Scarler Well I would really like to show you the power of my skirmishers. You would be surprised since my skirmishers would remove all of your mangudais in no time. :-) By the way, the skirmishers are also cheaper and so I could create more of them.
so_fcuking_lame read carefully - i said they are the worst matchup - and I will just refuse to fight em - will fight only if they are separated ( i am faster ) or if i have an onager or two nearby ... i never said they are not cheaper, in fact that is why they are the worst matchup for mangudais ;) ...

[Edited on 01/17/06 @ 02:44 PM]

Free Scarler Well, if you would not fight them and use onagers instead, my skirmishers would simply be protected by hussars and paladins and they would then defeat your onagers as soon as they are spotted.
so_fcuking_lame When I said I will not fight them i meant not fight them at all not that i will fight them with onagers. No point at all. And what else can you do with your skirmishers in this case? Harass?(hahaha) Or chase my fast, fast mangudais around the whole map while i kill your vilies ? And you have your limit high with the skirmishers. But let's assume i meant i will fight and fight instead with the onagers(as you have misunderstood). What happens then ?
The onager(s) are expendable. They just need to shoot 1-2 time( ripping the skirmishers) and be destroyed after that by the palas or hussars. Expected. But I still got my precious mangudais untouched. And you have your palas and hussars. Guess what the outcome of the battle will be. I bet on the mangudais.
Oh - and calculating the price of the palas and hussars you have wasted more money on this AGAIN.
And don't start with the topic - I will have these units , but then I will counter with those units , but then I will counter with ... and so on. Yes - in AOE - everything is counterable. But it is a question of timing - having them right when you need them and where you want them. And having them FAST. But my point was that in terms of money&gameplay mangudais are overall overpowered. Especially in the hand of an experienced player. They are easy to play and kinda jack of all trades. You can fight archers, you can fight infantry, you can fight horses, you can fight artillery, you can harass economy and military, if you are winning hard you can even attack with them townhalls. AND - you move fast! You can do almost anything at anytime anywhere. Can not say this for any other unit. And you still have your hussars(better then the enemy`s), swords , rams and onagers(faster, so more useful, so better again) and trebuchets if needed. If there are two players of equal skill, the mongol player is more likely the winner.

[Edited on 01/17/06 @ 03:37 PM]

emurikaw You seem as if you could see the entire map at once. They can do surprise attacks on your mangudai, and mangudai cost gold too. And how would you beat skrimishers if they were in your base? Mangudai will get slaughtered, if your onagors are too far away, it'll take them too long to get back, and even if they are close by, I can just use the spread formation and limit my skrimisher losses while using pallies to kill the onagors.

Huskarls and mamelukes (and paladins and onagors) still work well againest mangudai. Mangudai can beat huskarls, but with a lot of microing, and while your microing, they can just send some units to raid your base.

Mamelukes and paladins... well, if mamelukes can surprise attack your mangudai, or corner them, they'll do heavy damage. You can't really hit and run well againest paladins. If onagors surprise attack you, quite a few mangudai are going to be lost.

[Edited on 01/20/06 @ 03:43 PM]

so_fcuking_lame No I can't see the whole map at once ... but I see a large chunk of it all the time with a lot of light cavalry (using them a lot, twice more if being mongol) - returning the mortally damaged to a little loonger, with more waypoints, path. The LC will be the first to come/return to the base if I see your skirms, you guess the outcome... and dont start that then your palas will grind them - easyy boy - what the hell will they do in my base too, I am supposed to sleep all the time ? Dont forget walls - even palaside is enough to slow down your skirms and reveal them - and it is even cheaper and faster than building them. By the way - the onagers with drill move as fast as your skirmisher, check it before saying this.
And no - mangudais don't have problems with palas - they dont even need to finish them off , just lure them to the castles and get inside ( with 20 mangs castles do A LOT of dmg FAST) thats all. If they dont come I just harass the hell out of them. And the other player is using a lot more micro than me that way. That said, I just continue pushing forward with castles ( that way it is not so easy for your skirms to have a nice walk in my base as you described it ) harass with mangs and hussars, destroy your castles with trebs and kills yours trebs with mangs fast at the same time. Repeat. If a lot of palas or something comes in sight - fight and lure back to castles and putting wounded inside (herbal medicine - thank you tech tree !) and thats pretty much enough. If I can't break him I have one more trick in the bag - mass fast, fast FU rams full of FU champs. Tell me point after point your counter (and in terms of time and resources) to this WHOLE tactics and THEN check the micro and the resource needed for this. Not just the micro needed for mangs vs huscarls/mams/palas fighting in a vacuum static space. It is always dinamic, not just 20 mangs ( or limit of mangs) against 40 skirms ( or limit of skirms). It never happens that way.
And one more thing ( just in advance)- plz dont start with the individual player skills (in general) - you dont know me , I dont know you , this forum is not the place to check this and you will only turn personal
emurikaw Two things I need to counter that.


Who says mangudai will always be near a castle? Paladins can takedown onagors easily, and skrimishers can stop mangudai from advancing.

Besides, paladins can chase down mangudai and kill them.
File Author
Dear Mangudai??? can not see the rest of your user name, please can you indicate the titles, many thanks. Also the date is the date that I recorded it, by pure luck. I very rarely record games.

As to using skirms, the counter attack information on the "Unit strengths & weaknesses chart" ONLY applies to AoK & not (necessarily) the Conquerors, which includes the following for the Mongols: 1) Bloodlines, increases cavalry hit points by 20. 2) Parthian tactics, gives Cavalry archers + 4 attack & + 2 attack (i take it that is + 6) against Pikemen for the Magudai, which means that the Aztecs infantry units, which do not not have thumb ring either, are pretty weak; But only if you/I, play from a pre post imperial age start.

[Edited on 03/04/06 @ 08:35 AM]

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