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Downloads Home » Recorded Games » DM # 8 Expert BA...great game.. 3v3

DM # 8 Expert BA...great game.. 3v3

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Thee_Sulla
File Details
Version: The Conquerors
This was a bad civ match-up with us (Thee clan) as Saracens (blue), Mayans (green), and Aztecs (red) vs Koreans (yellow), Britons (purple), and Persians (teal). To make it worse, the best "rushing" civ we have is Mayans positioned in the middle at the far end of the map! This game is a great illustration of the importance of teamwork, map control, and establishing trade. When I scouted yellow and realized that he was Koreans I HAD to pressure him. Koreans are one of those civs you HATE to fight when they are fully built-up and well-resourced. Our aggressive forward building was a key factor. Some of the other keys to the victory were red's (Aztecs) ability to hold off a brutal combined attack from the Briton (purple) and Persian (teal), and our attack and control of the Korean (yellow) base and trade. A lot of punch and counter-punching, overall a very good game to watch.
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AuthorComments & Reviews   ( All | Comments Only | Reviews Only )
Sword_of_STORM
Official Reviewer
Ok, I think yellow was lucky getting a good defensive position, but he did not take advantage of it and build bombard towers and onagers. Green was unnecessarily attacking yellow with plumed archers and eagles against war wagons they kept getting slaughtered, it would have been much better to attack the Brits (purple), Red did not make any jaguar warriors, instead making champs which are more useless than jags. Aqua had the advantage on red for a long time but did not press it, ultimatly leading to loss. Again you mostly won here because of trade.

I must add here that you do not play like experts. I do not play DM, but I have played several RM michi and that's very much like DM. You are rarely at the population limit, in fact often way below it. Raiding is limited and for some reason you do not use hussars, which are cheap imperial age units. Also I did not see why your enemies played really defensively, walling up on such an open map. Cyan used persian long swordsmen, why? Trebuchets were used much more than siege rams here, and there wasn't much forward building. I'm not saying you didn't play well, but from your game I would say that you guys are probably only a little better than me and that's a long way from expert.
Thee_Sulla
File Author
I must add here that you do not play like experts. I do not play DM, but I have played several RM michi and that's very much like DM.

No, actually RM MICHI is nothing like DM. It is way too slow paced to compare to an expert DM game at fast speed. In fact, many of the MICHI map "experts" don't last more than 5 minutes in our games.

You are rarely at the population limit, in fact often way below it.

If you try and wait to get to pop limit in a DM game, you will die REALLY fast.

Raiding is limited and for some reason you do not use hussars, which are cheap imperial age units.

Raiding is limited because you are not facing a Dark Age opponent with an army of 10. If you watch though, there is plenty of raiding of trade and bases in many of these games. Use of Hussars is limited because they may be cheap, but when your opponent is using fully-upgraded Camels and Paladins, Halbs, etc...Hussars aren't that effective.


Also I did not see why your enemies played really defensively, walling up on such an open map.

Like I said, many of these players are RM/MICHI/Scenario players...they simply can't handle the pace of the game.

Cyan used persian long swordsmen, why? Trebuchets were used much more than siege rams here, and there wasn't much forward building

Who knows why Cyan used Persian LS? Trebs give you stand-off, and depending on the civs, not all have good rams. If you payed attention, you will notice that I ALWAYS forward build.

I'm not saying you didn't play well, but from your game I would say that you guys are probably only a little better than me and that's a long way from expert.

No, if you are a MICHI or RM player, you got a LONG way to go to be even a fair DM player. I have only met a few RM players that are also good at DM...Gilmore for instance. If you wish to "test" your DM skills, by all means, come to GameSpy...I and the Thee clan folks are there quite a bit.
Sword_of_STORM
Official Reviewer
You were probably the best of all the 6, your enemies did not do forward building or trade cart raiding :p

Ok, I guess I don't know much about DM, because I only play RM. Maybe I'll try a couple of times. Btw do you play on explored map?

Another thing.. please rename your recs because it's really muddled up when all names are like "recorded game on so and so date" and you can't make out which one is which.
Bogdanster I agree with Sword of Storm. You can see really good death match games when people are always at the max population and employ all sorts of tactics - including raiding. hussars are actually very good for raiding (economy or trade) and it will take some time for you to react with halbs or whatever - and they are cheap so losing them does not matter much - raider compensates through the economy/trade damage he/she causes. Also, michi is actually very much like DM, because if you are decent player you can build solid economy until cut and resources will come big and fast afterwards just like in DM, allowing you to produce units continuously and always be at pop limit.
Thee_Sulla
File Author
I agree with Sword of Storm. You can see really good death match games when people are always at the max population and employ all sorts of tactics - including raiding. hussars are actually very good for raiding (economy or trade) and it will take some time for you to react with halbs or whatever - and they are cheap so losing them does not matter much - raider compensates through the economy/trade damage he/she causes. Also, michi is actually very much like DM, because if you are decent player you can build solid economy until cut and resources will come big and fast afterwards just like in DM, allowing you to produce units continuously and always be at pop limit.

WRONG!!!!! I find this funny coming from non-DM players. MICHI is absolutely nothing like DM, which is why so many MICHI players last less than 5 minutes in an expert DM game...I know because we play many of them (and sceanrio players) on GameSpy..you should know because you are watching many of them in these recorded games. Here is a fact: if you try and wait to build-up to pop or develop your economy BEFORE you fight in a DM game...you will lose...FAST. If you noticed, we simultaneously attack, gain map control, develop trade and economy, and continue to fight. Because you DON'T have to worry about upgrades or initial resources in post-imp DM, it is a MUCH faster paced game. If you don't believe me, PLEASE come to GameSpy and play us...otherwise stick to fighting vs computers.
Bogdanster ok thee_sulla - you are right then although at least 2 people say otherwise. I will keep fighting computers - it's very good for practice and there's no lag :D

[Edited on 07/19/07 @ 12:03 PM]

vindicator7834 "I must add here that you do not play like experts. I do not play DM, but I have played several RM michi and that's very much like DM. "

no.... no no no no no michi is the exact opposite of a dm,

1. theres a wait till the action starts

2.dm you need to be aware of a rush coming at any time, michi you line up bombard and wait to see seige ongers...

3. a rm consists of 4 elements

-stratagy
-technique[how you go about setting up economy and militart]
-economy
-military

now in a dm
-stratagy
-reflexes/speed
-reflexes/speed
-trade
-military
-economy

some elements are the same but, in a dm its MUCH MUCH quicker. now when you say michi is like a dm i honestly hope your joking. a michi is a SLOW version of a random map.
VN_Farms Lot better players in this game than the previous one i replied (4v4). Most terrible thing i see here is late eco. on your team and the opposite side did so little eco.,. Over all it's not too bad. There are some more mistakes like not using the advantage of the civil. I guess some of you guys don't play good at all civ. Ex: Aztecs and brits were terrible. They didn't play them right.You and the Mayans guy were better than any of them in game. Sorry that I still don't think it's the Experts' level yet. You guys need to try harder :) ..Again sorry for my negative comment. I just give you my honest comment based on my DM experience. Yet I'm still not an expert. So don't be mad because you think I sound like I'm a real expert or just talking trash... I'm not.
Nealge I thought it was pretty cool. 'Cept I lost snyc every time I watched it. It was around the point when you had all those Marmelukes and siege weapons in front of the Yellow base, happened every time.

And question about playing over the web: How do you find multiplayers on gamespy?
Thee_Sulla
File Author
Funny you should say that VN. When I watched a lot of the old games on MFO I used to think that way about a lot of the expert DM games I watched, but I learned a lot from them. Then I actually played with and against some of those folks...different story. I am talking about guys like Major_Got_Milk, Major_Jose_M (best DM 1v1 Hun War player ever) , Irish_Knight, WB_Kids, etc. I was a 2k+ rated DM player on the zone and still got killed vs the top guys. I don't know if you were a member of VN clan, because I played them quite a bit...beat them quite a lot also. When I was with ANCIENT clan for a brief period, ANCIENT_PITBULL and myself were two of THE BEST water map players in rated DM (PITBULL simply was THE BEST on a Tm Islands map, period). When you consider what is out there right now...believe me...this is "Expert". Yea, guys still make mistakes and there are a lot of inexperienced, rook, or "Newb" players that play in the games, but until you actually jump in the pool...you aren't a swimmer.
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Added:07/08/07