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Topic Subject:US election
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Cyrus_
Banned
posted 10-07-08 02:58 AM CT (US)         
i'm not exactly new to this site, just logged in after a long break from the net, news, everything. I was interested in designing back in the day, but these days I just lurk. Love the changes with the site

Anywho I noticed a "politics is allowed" sign and decided to see if any of you are interested in politics. I've been talking to my family a lot about the election and the economy and it really sparked my interest in the subject. And since I'm not looking for trouble the moderator can ban anybody he wants, in fact I encourage it.



For those of you interested in the election in the United States, what are your thoughts on the candidates given the debates that have happened so far?

[This message has been edited by Cyrus_ (edited 10-07-2008 @ 03:06 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Fattybryce
Squire
posted 10-07-08 03:21 AM CT (US)     1 / 142       
Obama will win because he's black.

The Wall

coming soon
four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 10-07-08 06:02 AM CT (US)     2 / 142       
wellst
Squire
posted 10-07-08 06:24 AM CT (US)     3 / 142       
No offence guys, But John McCain isn't going to live very long, And then you'll be stuck with that annoying woman he's got as a vice.

.\\\') ,``,(`\\\'.
.\\\'),``,And as the darkness consumes me, I am nothing.,`,(`\\\'.
,``,,``,,``,
Lord Fenris
Banned
posted 10-07-08 06:42 AM CT (US)     4 / 142       
I don't really have a leaning between the two of them, but Sarah Palin is a major argument towards voting Obama.
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 10-07-08 07:13 AM CT (US)     5 / 142       
I am just so fearful that this is not a man who sees America as you and I see America - as the greatest source for good in the world.


"By repeatedly accusing the Democrat of being different from other Americans, the Republicans hope to implicitly draw voters' attention to the most obvious difference of all between Obama and other presidential candidates: his race. Another way of doing that is to question Obama's patriotism."
From The Guardian.

I never believed you could actually put others down by indicating they're simply different.
It's sad that they can't have an honest way of appealing to potential voters. I wish they'd stop all the dirty stuff and concentrate on actual reasons why they should be elected. Worse is if anybody buys their bullshit about the other party.

EDIT
Obama will win because he's black.
Well he ain't even black, and second: what the hell?

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)

[This message has been edited by Other White Meat (edited 10-07-2008 @ 07:30 AM).]

morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 10-07-08 08:41 AM CT (US)     6 / 142       
Well he ain't even black, and second: what the hell?
No, it makes perfect sense. America hasn't got rid of racism, and a lot of middle-class people will vote for Obama for their own concience. I did good, I am not racist. Even if Obama is only half-black.

As an estonian, I'd rather choke myself than vote for Obama, because he knows even less than me about foreign politics. If I'd be american, however, I'd be caught between the two, still leaning towards McCain (since I am quite a nationalist person, and I hope that would stay if by some odd chance I'd born in another country. I am near perfect, after all )

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
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Murloc
Squire
posted 10-07-08 08:46 AM CT (US)     7 / 142       
uhm voting obama for your own coscience maybe true for some persons, but not for the majority of them....

Wasn't his vice good at foreign politics? if it's true then they would be a good team, I would vote them.
I don't like Palin, I read she's the ice bear enemy.
four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 10-07-08 07:57 PM CT (US)     8 / 142       
No, it makes perfect sense. America hasn't got rid of racism, and a lot of middle-class people will vote for Obama for their own concience. I did good, I am not racist. Even if Obama is only half-black.
But then you get people who vote McCain because they don't want to see black man in the Whitehouse, so it balances out in the end.
No offence guys, But John McCain isn't going to live very long, And then you'll be stuck with that annoying woman he's got as a vice.
Call me sexist, but I've never seen a female politician who didn't annoy the hell out of me. Pauline Hanson, Hillary Clinton, they all seem the same.
Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-08-08 01:49 AM CT (US)     9 / 142       
No, it makes perfect sense. America hasn't got rid of racism, and a lot of middle-class people will vote for Obama for their own concience. I did good, I am not racist. Even if Obama is only half-black.
I've heard other people saying this too, but it's just ridiculous. The vote is secret: voting for Obama isn't going to prove to anyone that you're not racist, because no one else will know about it. I guess some people might claim to have voted for Obama to show that they're not racist, but that doesn't mean they have to have actually done it. And I really doubt that many people are gonna do it just to lie to themselves. That's silly.
Call me sexist, but I've never seen a female politician who didn't annoy the hell out of me. Pauline Hanson, Hillary Clinton, they all seem the same.
I'm going to have to go with "if not sexist, very ignorant." There are female politicians all across the political spectrum...I don't know how you could call, say, Hillary Clinton and Condoleeza Rice (or Sarah Palin) "the same," or even vaguely similar.

At the beginning of the race I liked both candidates a lot, but McCain's over-hawkish foreign policy, incredibly irresponsible and inexcusable choice for a VP and frankly pathetic and disgusting campaign ("lipstick on a pig" and so forth) have pushed me solidly into the Obama camp. His pick of Joe Biden, who is one of my favorite politicians, was also a big plus.

[This message has been edited by Enraged Orange (edited 10-08-2008 @ 01:55 AM).]

Cyrus_
Banned
posted 10-08-08 02:20 AM CT (US)     10 / 142       
"Obama will win because he's black."
I could say that Mccain will win because he's white, or Palin's a good/bad VP because she's a woman, but either way we're making assumptions that America's racist/sexist in it's political beliefs. Pay attention to the issues and not the racist/sexist slants. Make an educated guess.

"I wish they'd stop all the dirty stuff and concentrate on actual reasons why they should be elected. Worse is if anybody buys their bullshit about the other party."
That's all politics is these days. What I find more pathetic is when they have attack ads attacking candidates for something like associations (Reverend Wright or Prez Bush) rather than their positions on issues. It shows desperation and treats America superficially.

Back in the day I used to think Mccain, a successful, bipartisan senator, would be a great pick for president, but he's really changed in these eight years to try and win back his party. He has those same people who brought him down in 2000 working for him now and they're running the same kind of campaign. Im just glad they aren't reigniting the christian conservative base.

I view Mccain's vp pick as awful because she's inexperienced, hardly an influential talker. She tries to appeal to the people through being folksy, but I don't understand the anti-elitist appeal. Most politicans are elitists, especially the professionals who get shit done.
Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-08-08 02:33 AM CT (US)     11 / 142       
The only way the Palin pick would have worked to their advantage was if they could have won over disgruntled female Hillary supporters with her. When they realized that (gasp!) most of them cared more about electing a candidate who agreed with Hillary on 90%+ of the issues than electing one who happened to have a female running mate, they panicked, and hoped that Obama or (more likely) Biden would make some comment about Palin they could spin as anti-feminist and hopefully outrage those women enough to swing them over. Neither of them said anything legitimate, so they desperately grabbed on to the "lipstick on a pig" comment - a common turn of phrase McCain himself had used.

In short, the Republicans gambled on female voters being short-sighted morons, and lost. Personally, I would never vote for a ticket that put Palin one 72-year-old heartbeat away from the presidency, regardless of who she was running with, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 10-08-08 03:44 AM CT (US)     12 / 142       
I've heard other people saying this too, but it's just ridiculous. The vote is secret: voting for Obama isn't going to prove to anyone that you're not racist, because no one else will know about it. I guess some people might claim to have voted for Obama to show that they're not racist, but that doesn't mean they have to have actually done it. And I really doubt that many people are gonna do it just to lie to themselves. That's silly.
I personally think it's going to go the other way around. People will publicly say they support Obama so as not to appear racists, but in the booth they're going to vote McCain because they swallow his and Palin's bullshit with a smile.

I try not to be sexist, but Palin is terrible for a woman, she doesn't have the qualities that are needed from a female president/vice-president. She supports the NRA, for frig's sakes. That's really crazy because most women don't care about the NRA and most men who do don't like women in politics. This I claim.

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
wellst
Squire
posted 10-08-08 05:41 AM CT (US)     13 / 142       
Call me sexist, but I've never seen a female politician who didn't annoy the hell out of me. Pauline Hanson, Hillary Clinton, they all seem the same.
I didn't mean that. I don't think that sex or race should have anything to do with it, Even though it does in reality. I meant that Sarah Palin is really annoying, She seems to know nothing at all about anything, Let alone politics. She seems to think she can win just by slagging off Obama. Which just makes me want to vote for him even more, And i'm not even American.

.\\\') ,``,(`\\\'.
.\\\'),``,And as the darkness consumes me, I am nothing.,`,(`\\\'.
,``,,``,,``,
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 10-08-08 09:47 AM CT (US)     14 / 142       
Sex and race has everything to do with it, like it or not. The thing is, people are finally ready to break the status quo, which actually gives non-white or female candidates an unfair advantage. (yes, I know once it was the other way round. That doesn't mean we have to go to the other extreme)

Obama is a very populist politician, as I have gathered during this campaign. His favorite word "change" doesn't mean crap, but it is playing on the emotions of the people instead of being a valid promise. The masses are fed up with Bush, and Obama knows it. The further he distances himself from Bush, the better votes he gets.

Could someone enlighten me about Obama's position on Afghanistan (not Iraq!)?

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
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Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-08-08 10:10 AM CT (US)     15 / 142       
Sex and race has everything to do with it, like it or not. The thing is, people are finally ready to break the status quo, which actually gives non-white or female candidates an unfair advantage. (yes, I know once it was the other way round. That doesn't mean we have to go to the other extreme)
This is absurd. Out of 100 senators Obama is the only black - that's 1% Senate representation for a group that makes up about 12% of the population. There are 16 women, representing a group which obviously makes up 50% of the population. There has never been a black or female President or Vice President (soon to change, but still). Hell, 20% of Kentuckians admitted that they would not vote for any black Presidential candidate. There are two black governors out of 50 states (4%) and there have only been four ever. There are 8 female governors (16%).

Where is this "advantage?"
Obama is a very populist politician, as I have gathered during this campaign. His favorite word "change" doesn't mean crap, but it is playing on the emotions of the people instead of being a valid promise. The masses are fed up with Bush, and Obama knows it. The further he distances himself from Bush, the better votes he gets.
This strikes me as unfair and unlikely to be true. He has consistently voted contrary to the current administration - why do you think that would no longer be the case if he becomes President? Do you think that universal health care, withdrawal from Iraq, etc, are just lies? All those things would mean significant change from how things are now. Sure he's a populist, but that doesn't mean he can't be a sincere one...
Could someone enlighten me about Obama's position on Afghanistan (not Iraq!)?
He supports using some of the troops that he would withdraw from Iraq to help in Afghanistan. He wants to prioritize eliminating remaining Al-Qaeda cells in the Pakistani border regions. Here's a video where he describes his plan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTwUAAmRuNM

[This message has been edited by Enraged Orange (edited 10-08-2008 @ 10:11 AM).]

morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 10-08-08 10:29 AM CT (US)     16 / 142       
Where is this "advantage?"
You brought me data of the current moment, but the fact a black man is going for president now, changes that greatly.

Also, Kentuckistan doesn't matter.
Sure he's a populist, but that doesn't mean he can't be a sincere one...
That's even worse. Populism is the most destructive thing in democracy, it's short-sighted and idiotic. Every populistic decision is lamented later, a year or ten, or even more. The ease of applying populism is the main thing that throws me off democracy.
He supports using some of the troops that he would withdraw from Iraq to help in Afghanistan. He wants to prioritize eliminating remaining Al-Qaeda cells in the Pakistani border regions. Here's a video where he describes his plan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTwUAAmRuNM
Hmh. That's actually a good idea, something I wouldn't have expected from Obama. Iraq is a lost cause and has been such for a long time, but Afghanistan can be corrected yet.

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
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Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-08-08 10:36 AM CT (US)     17 / 142       
You brought me data of the current moment, but the fact a black man is going for president now, changes that greatly.
The fact that a black man was nominated for President (and may well win) does not imply that "non-white or female candidates [have] an unfair advantage." It just means, in this particular instance, that a black man was selected by the people. As I showed you, this isn't "common" by any means. It's hard to argue that groups as underrepresented as blacks and women have any sort of "advantage."
That's even worse. Populism is the most destructive thing in democracy, it's short-sighted and idiotic. Every populistic decision is lamented later, a year or ten, or even more. The ease of applying populism is the main thing that throws me off democracy.
That's a pretty broad generalization. What about worker's rights in the early 20th century? Or the employment programs that kept the US afloat during the Depression? Or social security? Or, in many nations, universal health care? Those are all "populistic decisions" that I don't think many people regret. I think you might be thinking of another term...
Hmh. That's actually a good idea, something I wouldn't have expected from Obama. Iraq is a lost cause and has been such for a long time, but Afghanistan can be corrected yet.
Werd.
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 10-08-08 11:14 AM CT (US)     18 / 142       
The fact that a black man was nominated for President (and may well win) does not imply that "non-white or female candidates [have] an unfair advantage." It just means, in this particular instance, that a black man was selected by the people. As I showed you, this isn't "common" by any means. It's hard to argue that groups as underrepresented as blacks and women have any sort of "advantage."
Very well. We'll soon find out.
That's a pretty broad generalization. What about worker's rights in the early 20th century? Or the employment programs that kept the US afloat during the Depression? Or social security? Or, in many nations, universal health care? Those are all "populistic decisions" that I don't think many people regret. I think you might be thinking of another term...
None of those are populistic decisions, they are decisions that had to happen one day or another. They are common sense.

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
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Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-08-08 12:58 PM CT (US)     19 / 142       
What would be an example of a "populistic decision" then?
Powery
Squire
posted 10-08-08 12:58 PM CT (US)     20 / 142       
Obama will win because he's black.
Look at his hair. That's black. Then compare it to his face.

I think Obama's brown and he looks as he was oiled.

[This message has been edited by Powery (edited 10-08-2008 @ 01:00 PM).]

Gwame
Squire
posted 10-08-08 01:26 PM CT (US)     21 / 142       
And look at McCain's hair. That's white. Then compare it to his face.

...

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[This message has been edited by Gwame (edited 11-08-2008 @ 11:38 PM).]

Gwame
Squire
posted 10-08-08 02:02 PM CT (US)     22 / 142       
I have a question for those who know their stuff about McCain. I've heard stories about his first wife - a model. Apparently while he was at war, she had suffered a serious accident and was somewhat disfigured and couldn't walk. He then divorced her shortly afterwards. Is this one of those sensationalist stories or does it actually merit something?

MY NAME IS GWAME I AM AOKH MEMBER SINCE 2004 AND I HAVE MANY POSTS
BEST SIG OF 2008 AND 2ND BEST SIG OF 2009 (SAME SIG LOLOL)
BEST SIG OF 2008
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Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-08-08 03:03 PM CT (US)     23 / 142       
Actually he cheated on her while she was in the hospital and then divorced her later. He's admitted as much in an autobiography. More information here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/carol.asp
four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 10-09-08 08:34 AM CT (US)     24 / 142       
I'm going to have to go with "if not sexist, very ignorant." There are female politicians all across the political spectrum...I don't know how you could call, say, Hillary Clinton and Condoleeza Rice (or Sarah Palin) "the same," or even vaguely similar.
Not the same in their views but the same in how they all seem to walk around with a chip on their shoulder. Do I want Germaine Greer in office? No thanks.
"I wish they'd stop all the dirty stuff and concentrate on actual reasons why they should be elected. Worse is if anybody buys their bullshit about the other party."
That's all politics is these days. What I find more pathetic is when they have attack ads attacking candidates for something like associations (Reverend Wright or Prez Bush) rather than their positions on issues. It shows desperation and treats America superficially.
Well, that's the thing with elections. They drag on for so long that every remotely relevant issue gets beaten to death and people end up discussing which candidate has the coolest hair. I sort of wish people would forget about that Reverend Wright crap as well.
Actually he cheated on her while she was in the hospital and then divorced her later. He's admitted as much in an autobiography. More information here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/carol.asp


I didn't know that...har har!
Gwame
Squire
posted 10-09-08 11:04 AM CT (US)     25 / 142       
Actually he cheated on her while she was in the hospital and then divorced her later. He's admitted as much in an autobiography. More information here:
So as soon as she lost her trademark model hotness, he cheated and eventually divorced her? I don't recall Obama and his supporters ever mentioning that. It'd be an easy punch to pull.

MY NAME IS GWAME I AM AOKH MEMBER SINCE 2004 AND I HAVE MANY POSTS
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