Take 30 minutes and watch this video, it's worth it
What are your thoughts about it?
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Replies:
Nowhere Squire
(id: NowhereT)
posted 03-07-12 09:39 AM
CT (US)
1 / 121
I don't think the video is balanced. I agree that the LRA is wrong and needs/needed to be stopped, but there are tales circulating Reddit/elsewhere of the campaign not giving all the money they raise etc...
Personally, I can't entirely trust the video because in the 15 minutes I watched they failed to mention the fact that Kony etc are basing their actions on Christianity. Yep, that old chestnut: Religion. It just so happens that because these atrocities are being carried out under the name of Christianity, that fact gets glossed over.
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Basse Squire
posted 03-07-12 09:45 AM
CT (US)
2 / 121
Yeah, they say Kony is fighting for nothing but his power. But the LRA is fighting for Christianity. It just doesn't really seem legit that Kony is the leader of LRA then.
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Basse Squire
posted 03-07-12 10:39 AM
CT (US)
4 / 121
That was some interesting reading
[This message has been edited by Basse (edited 03-07-2012 @ 10:39 AM).]
Popeychops "Cool" Huskarl
posted 03-07-12 11:24 AM
CT (US)
5 / 121
being carried out under the name of Christianity, that fact gets glossed over
Oh, the Lord's Resistance Army. The fact is rightly glossed over, mainly due to the fact that pretty much the most basic principle of Christianity is adherence to non-aggression. Unfortunately, NT, as tempting as it is to claim that the LRA proves Christianity is evil or comtains a "dark side", the fact is that while claiming to be Christian, the actions of the LRA violate the moral standard required of Christianity's adherents.
To give you some perspective, I support miltary intervention and nuclear deterrent under "just war" theory. The reactions I get from fellow Christians are often either incredulity or "why aren't you a pacifist?"
The LRA are just the same as any other warlord's militia. Notice how Kony claims to be "God's spokesman". When last I looked, God ceased sending prophets after Malachi and claiming to be a second messiah was the best way of determining that you were lying.
I think there are better children's charities that we should support (eg, UNICEF).
Member of BlackForest Studios Co-creator of Silent Evil(4.6) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009 (Most Fave'd Multiplayer Scenario) and TheSeasofEgressa(4.8) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010 "Popey just hates everywhere." - Chocolate Jesus, on my fear of Romanian organ-traffickers "Hooray for Dear Leader-Comrade-Generalissimo-Presidente-Lord Protector Popey!" - Lord Sipia, on my benevolent, iron-fisted rule "You're not Popeychops; you don't get to physics." - Moff, in response to a clumsy muon simile
Nowhere Squire
(id: NowhereT)
posted 03-07-12 11:43 AM
CT (US)
6 / 121
I think if you believe the 9/11 and 7/7 bombers attacked in the name of Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to believe that the LRA carries out atrocities in the name of Christianity.
Pro-lifers, the Westboro Baptists, even creationists are IMO simple minded, hipocritical and biased.
You will never win me over, Popey so don't even try.
*Exits thread*
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Scud Primus inter pares
posted 03-07-12 11:50 AM
CT (US)
7 / 121
Popey, I don't think NT was trying to attack you or Christianity. However stating that he has no motives other than personal power is misleading. Sure he is inspired by a perversion of a religious doctrine (like other past and contemporary examples) which he thinks is the correct path, but to say he is just acting out megalomania is incorrect. Yes, you can argue he is and he has earned personal power, but it is his beliefs that (in his own eyes) give him legitimacy - he's not doing what he is doing just for shits and giggles, so to not explain his modus operandi or why he fights is misguiding.
If anything, I would think more people would be outraged if they knew what was driving him.
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Popeychops "Cool" Huskarl
posted 03-07-12 12:13 PM
CT (US)
9 / 121
I think if you believe the 9/11 and 7/7 bombers attacked in the name of Islam
You miss my point entirely. Sure, they claim the name of Islam, but that doesn't mean Islam endorses terrorism. I'm not an expert on Islamic theological doctrine so I'll just say that claiming someone's support does not entitle you to that person's support.
Pro-lifers, the Westboro Baptists, even creationists are IMO simple minded, hipocritical and biased.
Now that's a big jump. If you really want to move on to these, I agree on two out of the three. The Westboro Baptists are tactless and sensationalist. Most of the creationists I've met have been unscientific, to say the least. But pro-lifers? If you're referring to the "pro-lifers" who throw acid at abortionists, then I'd share in your disgust. But people who are morally opposed to abortion? I'm morally opposed to abortion (under normal circumstances, for the record). But I'm more pro-life than the majority of "pro-lifers", since polls of pro-life groups tend to correlate strongly with support for capital punishment. The thing that sways me is something I once read (on 4chan, believe it or not): "You might be liberal if you support the killing of the unborn innocent but not the killing of the living condemned". I support neither.
NT, the issue in the OP and the issues you touched upon are neither easy nor simple. So please don't try to dismiss them like they are. And if you think I'll never win you over: don't test me.
Popey, I don't think NT was trying to attack you or Christianity.
It was thinly veiled in his first response, not exactly strongly worded, but I felt it was necessary to give my side of the argument, given (as you quite rightly said), the LRA's perversion of docrine to justify the abhorrent crimes it commits. Kony's use of religion as a motivation doesn't outrage me, just astonished at his complete stupidity in reading christian doctrine. At some point, someone must have shown him the verses in the bible where Jesus says the whole "turn the other cheek". If so, clearly this guy thinks he knows God's will better than Jesus (God himself). That's megalomania of the highest degree. That said, I'm not trying to suggest that it's the only cause of his evil behaviour, but that it's clearly perverting otherwise good things to fuel atrocity.
Btw, I like the links, even if they are one-sided at least they're well-sourced.
Member of BlackForest Studios Co-creator of Silent Evil(4.6) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009 (Most Fave'd Multiplayer Scenario) and TheSeasofEgressa(4.8) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010 "Popey just hates everywhere." - Chocolate Jesus, on my fear of Romanian organ-traffickers "Hooray for Dear Leader-Comrade-Generalissimo-Presidente-Lord Protector Popey!" - Lord Sipia, on my benevolent, iron-fisted rule "You're not Popeychops; you don't get to physics." - Moff, in response to a clumsy muon simile
[This message has been edited by Popeychops (edited 03-07-2012 @ 12:22 PM).]
Nowhere Squire
(id: NowhereT)
posted 03-07-12 12:34 PM
CT (US)
10 / 121
*Pops back into thread* (Although I know I shouldn't)
AFAIK neither Christianity nor Islam preaches or endorses terrorism in theory. Sure, there might be crappy passages in both books - but hey, the bible also says crap about not eating shellfish or getting tattoos, so I don't think they're applicable in a literal sense in this day and age.
The bible (with which I am more familiar than I am with the Quran, although I'm certainly no expert) preaches contradictory passages (Turn the other cheek vs an eye for an eye) so religious texts are open to interpretation. Kony is in the same vein as the 9/11 bombers; they interpret their book in whichever way they wish.
I do not and did not intend this as an attack on you, Popey. I just lost all faith in the campaign when I read how they just glossed over the whole Christianity thing. People don't want to see Christianity tarnished so they sever ties with violent Christians.
And yes, those were the pro-lifers I was talking about. If you're against abortion, don't get an abortion. If you're against gay marriage, don't have one. But stay the f*ck out of other people's business and have some damned human decency.
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Popeychops "Cool" Huskarl
posted 03-07-12 12:48 PM
CT (US)
11 / 121
Oh sweet jesus not the Guardian's opinion collumns. I throw that shit away when it's newspaper + cadburys day just like I do with the telegraph
People don't want to see Christianity tarnished so they sever ties with violent Christians.
Isn't it right that we should ostracise people when they twist things in such a basic way?
preaches contradictory passages (Turn the other cheek vs an eye for an eye) so religious texts are open to interpretation.
Just so you're more familiar with the bible, remember that it's two religions being shown side by side. The old one (Judaism) serves to show us how hard it is to live up to God's standard, giving us what we deserve (hence eye for an eye), while the newer one (Christianity) shows us how even though we fail, God still loves us and doesn't give us what we deserve, and because of that we should act that way towards everyone else too (turn the other cheek). I despise shellfish and think tattoos are tacky, so I'm pleased with that
so I don't think they're applicable in a literal sense in this day and age.
Quite. I can't say I trust the opinion of a 3000 year old text on the formation of the Earth over the current best theories of astrophysics, but there we are. One must take a sense of perspective on these things, and look for the reasons behind why the author wrote what he did, rather than the words he used to say it.
Member of BlackForest Studios Co-creator of Silent Evil(4.6) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009 (Most Fave'd Multiplayer Scenario) and TheSeasofEgressa(4.8) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010 "Popey just hates everywhere." - Chocolate Jesus, on my fear of Romanian organ-traffickers "Hooray for Dear Leader-Comrade-Generalissimo-Presidente-Lord Protector Popey!" - Lord Sipia, on my benevolent, iron-fisted rule "You're not Popeychops; you don't get to physics." - Moff, in response to a clumsy muon simile
Nowhere Squire
(id: NowhereT)
posted 03-07-12 12:54 PM
CT (US)
12 / 121
(I) think tattoos are tacky
But do they warrant eternity in hell?
One must take a sense of perspective on these things
Exactly, but most people don't - members of both religions ignore the general good message, eg Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself and instead focus on the specific crap, eg Thou shalt not take blood (This)
And about the Guardian thing... I knew there was a Santorum quote and the top two hits where the Guardian and the Daily Mail; I chose the lesser of two evils. Nonetheless, the quote in all its bullshitty glory is there.
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Popeychops "Cool" Huskarl
posted 03-07-12 01:01 PM
CT (US)
13 / 121
You mean leviticus 19:28? It actually says that in the same line as marking one's body for the dead, I think that particular one is referring to a ritual. That's what I mean by taking a perspective on it, the practice itself was, at the time of writing, used predominantly for ritual purposes.
I facepalm whenever I remember that JW's throw away their lives because they refuse transfusions. Only the eating of blood is ever prohibited in scripture, and that was explicitly lifted in the book of acts...
Member of BlackForest Studios Co-creator of Silent Evil(4.6) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009 (Most Fave'd Multiplayer Scenario) and TheSeasofEgressa(4.8) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010 "Popey just hates everywhere." - Chocolate Jesus, on my fear of Romanian organ-traffickers "Hooray for Dear Leader-Comrade-Generalissimo-Presidente-Lord Protector Popey!" - Lord Sipia, on my benevolent, iron-fisted rule "You're not Popeychops; you don't get to physics." - Moff, in response to a clumsy muon simile
Nowhere Squire
(id: NowhereT)
posted 03-07-12 01:25 PM
CT (US)
14 / 121
IMO if someone is stupid enough to kill themselves over religion, that's their prerogative. But kill another (eg JW's young children) and you're a dick.
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Lord Sipia Squire
posted 03-07-12 01:32 PM
CT (US)
15 / 121
Oh boy, religious discussion over here, bros.
Oh well, I try to remain neutral when it comes to this stuff. In other words,
*leaves thread*
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THYMOLE Squire
posted 03-07-12 02:52 PM
CT (US)
16 / 121
Screw the religious aspect. He's a nutjob.
The question is whether or not removing him will do much other than create a power void for somebody else. Uganda is a shitty country in a constant power struggle. As is much of Africa.
I'm not much for military action on the US' dime but I believe this is something that could be cleaned up quickly. The situation in finding him is better than the movie implies. He is a war criminal Unaligned with any country so we can easily f*** diplomacy and blow his brains out if he is found. Would be better to toss him to the people though. This situation is different from the Middle East in that he has few civillians to hide behind. I do think we could nab him in a year. What would become of the LRA is a mystery.
My bigger fear is that governments grow tired of these massive fad collaborations. We just had SOPA. That didn't earn any votes for anybody. If they occur too often it will lose political following. Facebook sensationalization is very easy. Voter followthrough has yet to be tested.
ooh, ooh, let me predict what this thread is going to be like:
christian fundie in denial: Every other christian is wrong and I am right.
douchebag militant atheist: But what about bad things like X and Y and Z that happened thanks to christianity and would never at all happen in a proper nonreligious civilization because humans are brilliant and religion is the fault of everything, totally?
christian fundie in denial: Nope those don't count because I do not agree with them therefore they aren't christians.
douchebag militant atheist: Okay, but then I would like to present you this wildly inaccurate understanding of evolution
christian fundie in denial: Look there's a bit you aren't completely able to prove to satisfy me, therefore god exists.
This ain't one of them conspiracy videos, like Zeitgeist?
Apparently not, but see, KONY doesn't say a thing to me, and investing 30 minutes to watch some random shit is that much away from Oz, so I'd like to know if it's worth it.
ooh, ooh, let me predict what this thread is going to be like:
Hey, I'm not militant!
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(id: Bart Pimpson)
posted 03-07-12 04:19 PM
CT (US)
20 / 121
30 minutes??
The only 30 minute Youtube video I'd watch is "How to save your mother from intestinal cancer", and only then if my mother had remembered to get me a badass birthday present.
Don't fight over religion in this thread. I am going to put up some posters on April 20 on Kony.
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RedHandedJill Cardinal Sinner
posted 03-07-12 05:07 PM
CT (US)
22 / 121
Good on you Dementor. I watched the whole thing (instead of working) and was very moved by it. Child soldiers are wrong, and I don't agree with war and fighting at the best of times. I'm really interested to see how successful the poster covering will be.
The Kony 2012 campaign has been mentioned in the prayer meetings/small groups I go to and I never really new what it was about till now, so thanks for posting this.
One of the girls I know campaigns for Meninadanca, which is all about young girls who get forced into prostitution by their families to earn money along the 116 in Brazil. There are so many horrible thing children have to face in other countries, that we can't truly wipe it all out without changing human nature. But any small change is better than none.
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Lord Basse MI6 Scenario-Making Machine
posted 03-07-12 05:11 PM
CT (US)
23 / 121
Am I in the ballpark?
Yes.
As for the Kony 2012 drama, here and here's to taking a step back from the idealistic "buy a sticky note and save the world!" campaign. They have the best intentions, but oversimplifying the narrative and imagining your campaign will change the order of the world might not be of much help.
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[This message has been edited by Lord Basse (edited 03-07-2012 @ 05:16 PM).]
Evil Tailor Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 03-07-12 05:12 PM
CT (US)
24 / 121
You're the fundie in denial.
Me not get.
The only 30 minute Youtube video I'd watch is "How to save your mother from intestinal cancer", and only then if my mother had remembered to get me a badass birthday present.
Pretty much what I thought, except that the only 30 minute Youtube video I'd watch is a bomb-building guide.
(Just trying to bring the war on terrorism to my cold, desolate home country. I think we're in need of an invasion, what with all these... people taking our jobs and all. And I swear we've got oil here, somewhere!)
They have the best intentions, but oversimplifying the narrative and imagining your campaign will change the order of the world might not be of much help.
What I don't get is why does it have to be either radically changing the whole world or waste of time. I agree with you, sort of, but I don't really see how it's harming anyone if they get a good conscience and a kid somewhere gets a vaccination as a result. (Except if the money actually goes to warlords. That's bad, m'kay.) Again, I didn't watch the video, but I'm talking about principle here.
"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing." -- Christopher Hitchens http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
[This message has been edited by Evil Tailor (edited 03-07-2012 @ 05:16 PM).]
THYMOLE Squire
posted 03-07-12 06:18 PM
CT (US)
25 / 121
The April 20 idea isnt the best idea. That's vandalism. It is very likely to annoy many people.
The graffiti artist they featured in the movie who did the Obama posters is currently under a lawsuit for his work. They failed to mention that...