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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires III Discussion » The Scenario Editor Thread
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Topic Subject:The Scenario Editor Thread
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Angel Aro
Squire
(id: Cherub Aro)
posted 06-15-03 01:33 AM CT (US)         
What do you think should be included in a new scenario editor if ES was to make another? Give your suggestions for a new scenario editor in this thread. The suggestions can be new conditions, effects, terrain, or just your opinion on what would make a better scenario editor. Be sure to keep the discussions relating to the main topic of this thread.

Past Editor Opinion Threads:

The Scenario Designer's Wishlist posted 05/13/03 kevingamer _AcX_
AoE III Scenario Editor posted 04/25/03 by kevingamer _AcX_
The Scenario Editor - A powerhouse or a user-friendly tool? posted 01/09/03 by Darkmaster
The OFFICIAL Scenario Editor Thread posted 12/03/02 by CrystalCrown

Angel Aro
Age of Kings Heaven Angel | Empires Heaven Angel
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war3fan1
Banned
posted 09-07-04 03:29 PM CT (US)     101 / 153       
I think it should have a object editor. The trigger editor should have more things like cinematics, dialogs, etc. With these two editors we can modify units and make cinematics. We can also do that if a unit enters an area the game play a cinematic. An object manager can be a useful thing if you will see what you have done in the map. With the object editor you can modify the attack, the hit points and the range of a unit.
You can also modify a unit animation.

[This message has been edited by war3fan1 (edited 09-07-2004 @ 03:31 PM).]

jokeofweek
Squire
posted 09-08-04 05:38 PM CT (US)     102 / 153       
-includes a new unit editor (such as making a unit from scratch and the ability to change armor,range,...)

-change name of objects already there

-Have a healing trigger

-the Timer trigger seperated in hours,minutes,seconds

AOC Freako
Squire
(id: aoc_freako)
posted 09-13-04 08:44 PM CT (US)     103 / 153       
I got an idea, they should improve the Cinematics tab. And I mean improve.

First of all, the tab should be called "Cinematics Maker". Then, it'll have lots of controls for making a cinematic. It will allow you to move units in an order with timers and stuff. Another thing could be adding transitions to changing views.


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zvdickens
Squire
posted 09-17-04 05:22 PM CT (US)     104 / 153       
An Ungarrison effect would be appreciated and object has target an effect instead of a condition.

Sage Studios Member
AOC Freako
Squire
(id: aoc_freako)
posted 09-17-04 06:49 PM CT (US)     105 / 153       
You mean "Set Object Target".

Edit: Ungarrison effect and garrison effect.


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· Proud Forumer of AOKH ·

[This message has been edited by aoc_freako (edited 09-17-2004 @ 06:49 PM).]

zyxomma100
Squire
posted 09-23-04 10:39 PM CT (US)     106 / 153       
We need a garrison effect badly. But we already have an ungarrison effect.

IMO, the editor should not have an object editor. Not only does it increase file size, it makes scenario designing almost a joke, because if you don't have an object, you can just put it in.

Quote:

You mean "Set Object Target".


Um... Task Object?

zyxomma100- Age of Kings Heaven forumer
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DarckRedd
Squire
posted 09-23-04 11:26 PM CT (US)     107 / 153       
I want a Universal Change Object Stats effect. It would let you modify the stats of all of a certain object. You can also pic armor, HP, attack, name, and speed all in one effect, before any unit created. Like Genied, but not as binding, and no messing with program code.

| D A R C K R C D D |

[This message has been edited by DarckRedd (edited 09-23-2004 @ 11:27 PM).]

AOC Freako
Squire
(id: aoc_freako)
posted 10-02-04 01:06 AM CT (US)     108 / 153       
Didn't I say that already? No wait, I didn't mention a unit pic edit.

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· Proud Forumer of AOKH ·
zyxomma100
Squire
posted 10-02-04 02:13 PM CT (US)     109 / 153       
I never understood why people would want a custom unit editor.

1. It requires the scenario format to add at least some unit data, increasing file size. Especially if it gets to the point where we can edit icons/graphics, 56Kers are not going to have a field day.
2. It increases the gap between Random Map playing and Scenario Designing. I don't like the idea of having us use the same units as them, but have different stats.
3. We will end up with a hell of a lot more nooby scenarios than before. The good designers will be able to take what they have and do good with it, but the bad designers will mess with a bunch of units and just make a very bad scenario.


zyxomma100- Age of Kings Heaven forumer
Proudly thwarting Dark_Aro's evil plans since 2002
"There is nothing more sad than watching a teutonic knight chasing a petard."
TheTrebuchet
Squire
posted 10-10-04 09:23 PM CT (US)     110 / 153       
The New Scenario Creator should have sea walls, Bridges That Go from cliff to cliif, (having supports at the bottom, if they get destroyed: The area of the damaged bridge collaspes, allowing enemy ships to go under)

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war3fan1
Banned
posted 10-13-04 02:31 PM CT (US)     111 / 153       
That's a very good idea because with the sea walls we can stop the enemy from sea attacks.
AOC Freako
Squire
(id: aoc_freako)
posted 10-16-04 10:56 AM CT (US)     112 / 153       
Yes, and the sea walls could be slightly different from palisade walls.

Another thing I'd like to add, now that you mentioned cliffs, is that when deleting cliffs, it doesn't make that cut cliff kind of graphic.


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· Proud Forumer of AOKH ·
Intrepid
Squire
posted 11-02-04 01:41 PM CT (US)     113 / 153       
These are a few of the more important items that have been mentioned in the editor wish list for Empire Earth 2, I have cut down a number of items so they remain relevant to a possible AoE3. I think # 8 is probably the most important.

1) Multiplayer Designing: Imagine if you will, the ability to host a game, but instead of playing the game you got together with your buddies and designed a scenario online. Scenario design teams would probably find this the most useful as it would make it much easier to get together with other team members to work on joint projects. However, I think the average player would enjoy it as well. A group, for instance, could make a map and then play against each other on it. A good descriptive name for this would be cooperative designing.

2) Effects that can write/read from/to text files: Visualizing the effectiveness of these effects is a no brainier. This would make it possible to keep track of various things outside of a scenario. The implications for such triggers for both multiplayer scenarios and single player scenarios are monumental if you can conceive of a few of the possibilities such effects could have.

3) Graphic Scaling: Most games already have this as a feature of their editor. However, it would be useful if you could scale objects by individual axis.

4) Graphical Effects That are Laid as Terrains: With this idea you could draw on the map where you want to see smoke, mist, fog, rain etc... However, for this idea to actually be something creative you should also be able to manipulate the elevation level in which the terrain is placed. These effects shouldn't just be objects that have been incorporated into terrains as that defeats the purpose of such an idea.

5) A Water Fill Tool: For this tool to work properly the editor would have to function under a system of numerical denotation for elevations. Basically this tool would allow you to fill a certain elevation level up with water. The water level would be adjustable so both shallows and deep oceans can be created. The tool would only you to fill an area with water if that area is constrained by a higher elevation. This tool would allow water to placed at any elevation level without the hassle of non-elevation water
based systems.

6) Surfaces and Colour Overlays That Can be Applied to Terrains: Basically this would allow you to change the tint of terrains by placing colour overlays on top of them. Coupled with this would the ability to choose from maybe four surfaces that can be placed with the terrain. These surfaces would fairly simple; you could have a jagged, flat, bumpy and blocky surface. These surfaces would not act as elevations, they would act simply as if they were normal terrains.

7) A Physics System that can be Modified: The designer would able to change a series of constant values (i.e. gravitational force, coefficient of static and kinetic friction). The designer would also have the ability to distort simple equations in order to create surreal effects.

8) A Component Based Trigger Systems: Several games already possess such a system as they dwarf non component based trigger systems by providing greater power and flexibility. A component based trigger system basically allows you to construct the components of triggers before you actually construct the trigger itself. It turn these components can be used in multiple triggers. The next step up from a component based trigger system would be one that operates in a similar fashion to windows.

9) Numerical Elevations: Elevation levels are denoted with a numerical values.

10) Saving your triggers/conditions/effects/objects/areas: the ability to copy all of your triggers/conditions/effects/objects/areas into a .txt file so that you can "load" them into a new scenario that you are designing without having to remake everything.

11) Multiplayer scenario testing: The ability to be able to test the multiplayer scenario as any player without going online.

12) A campaign editor: An editor which allows you choose what scenarios you would like in a campaign and the media you like in the campaign. (I know this sounds like an odd request, as this is fairly standard for editors now, but I know of a certain game that came out recently completely forgot to put one in.)

13) Text editing system: Empires has a really nice system that allows you to change the colour, alignment and size of the text in areas where text is displayed. They also use a system that allows you to implant any numerical condition within a text section. This is great for things like kill counters, death counters, etc.

14) More programming type features Sort of like taking content from txt files but more. Players can enter input, and the game keeps it as a variable that can be used later. Variables would add a lot of depth and personality. Imagine a scenario asking for your name and it uses your name for the rest of the scenario.

15) Unit Pathways This function would be similar to tasking units to an area only you would be able to define a path that the unit can walk along.

16) A Manual

Ruler of Hell
Squire
posted 11-16-04 05:00 AM CT (US)     114 / 153       
Rpg scenarios and other similar type of scenarios are becoming popular so triggers should be made much easier. Their should be an animation creator etc. Eg. Final boss is killed . He (champion eg.) falls on his knees and as assigned any text should appear in some box.
NEXT multiplayer designing. Z Studios and Y studios can get together and create a map and share ideas.

3) A person creates a map and allows others to copy it. The person likes the map but also wants to create a map. So along with the map copy option the triggers should be saved or should be saved in to Trigggers folder.

4)Instead of downloading a modpack thingy there should be an object editor in the game itself.

5) Some geeks don't know how to create scenarios so some guide should be there to help em.

TOAO_Imperial_5
Squire
(id: DDRMAX2)
posted 11-16-04 11:17 AM CT (US)     115 / 153       

Quote:

Instead of downloading a modpack thingy there should be an object editor in the game itself.


ummm...no. it has been said already that an object editor would increase the gap between designing and playing the game it self....besides what's so hard about installing modpacks???

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AOC Freako
Squire
(id: aoc_freako)
posted 11-19-04 04:23 PM CT (US)     116 / 153       
Wow, I certainly love those ideas.

Quote:

6) Surfaces and Colour Overlays That Can be Applied to Terrains: Basically this would allow you to change the tint of terrains by placing colour overlays on top of them. Coupled with this would the ability to choose from maybe four surfaces that can be placed with the terrain. These surfaces would fairly simple; you could have a jagged, flat, bumpy and blocky surface. These surfaces would not act as elevations, they would act simply as if they were normal terrains.

Couldn't ES just simply make more terrains?


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· Proud Forumer of AOKH ·
TOAO_Imperial_5
Squire
(id: DDRMAX2)
posted 11-19-04 07:06 PM CT (US)     117 / 153       
AoC Freako your back!! where have u been???

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| Find me on AoE2HD: TOAO_Fano |
DarckRedd
Squire
posted 11-19-04 09:28 PM CT (US)     118 / 153       

Quote:

14) More programming type features Sort of like taking content from txt files but more. Players can enter input, and the game keeps it as a variable that can be used later. Variables would add a lot of depth and personality. Imagine a scenario asking for your name and it uses your name for the rest of the scenario.

Quote:

Keep it simple, stupid.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to complicated.


| D A R C K R C D D |
Black_Dust
Squire
posted 11-20-04 10:42 AM CT (US)     119 / 153       
be awsome if like your swordsmen can get on the wild horses and become horsemen or horse archers in the game...

Everywhere I go, I am a foreigner.
I have two homes and I have none. When I go to one, I'm from the other.
Intrepid
Squire
posted 11-20-04 05:50 PM CT (US)     120 / 153       

Quote:

Couldn't ES just simply make more terrains?

Personally, I would rather have an infinite number of terrains. This has been done in other editors for other games so it is nothing new.

Quote:

Keep it simple, stupid.

That is exactly why this editor and the editor for AoM are rather pathetic. ES always makes editors that look like they were a last minute addition; they need to take the time to make something decent.

zyxomma100
Squire
posted 11-20-04 09:37 PM CT (US)     121 / 153       

Quote:

That is exactly why this editor and the editor for AoM are rather pathetic.



From what I hear, the AoM editor was crap, but IMO the AoK editor is one of the best ever to be put in a game. And the reason for that is it's simplicity.

My thoughts:

1. No custom unit editor. Please.
2. No integrated graphics editor. The current AoK relation with MPS is perfect, IMO.
3. Yea to a Cinematics editor, if the game is 3D, which I hope it won't be (but it will).

Quote:

7) A Physics System that can be Modified: The designer would able to change a series of constant values (i.e. gravitational force, coefficient of static and kinetic friction). The designer would also have the ability to distort simple equations in order to create surreal effects.


Quote:

11) Multiplayer scenario testing: The ability to be able to test the multiplayer scenario as any player without going online.


Good ideas.

As for some of your guys suggestions, you guys are treating AoE3 as though it's going to be an upgraded version of AoK. Let ES come up with its own ideas for units/buildings.


zyxomma100- Age of Kings Heaven forumer
Proudly thwarting Dark_Aro's evil plans since 2002
"There is nothing more sad than watching a teutonic knight chasing a petard."
Intrepid
Squire
posted 11-21-04 06:53 PM CT (US)     122 / 153       
The Aok editor is simple to understand but needlessly complicated and convoluted in several respects. Its most glaring problem is its trigger system.
zyxomma100
Squire
posted 11-23-04 10:59 PM CT (US)     123 / 153       
The trigger system? What's so hard/complicated/bad/whatever about it? IMO it's the best part of the AoK map editor, and from my short stay at AoMH, people were wishing they had AoK's triggers. Not to mention that triggers are about as easy as it gets... There is something wrong with you if you cannot understand a simple cause/effect relationship.

You might be able to say other parts of the editor are bad (if you throw away the fact it's 5 years old), but not the trigger system.


zyxomma100- Age of Kings Heaven forumer
Proudly thwarting Dark_Aro's evil plans since 2002
"There is nothing more sad than watching a teutonic knight chasing a petard."
Intrepid
Squire
posted 11-23-04 11:10 PM CT (US)     124 / 153       
The trigger system is easy to understand but needlessly complicated. This is largely due to the fact that it is a non-component based trigger system. Such a system was acceptable 5 years, but not today, and certainly not for any future ES game. The failure of the AoM editor is largely due to the fact that it has a non-component based trigger system.

It takes about 200 - 300 triggers to make a standard blood multiplayer scenario in AoK with a non component based system, I can make the same scenario with a modern component based trigger system in around 10 triggers.

In fact someone actually made a blood multiplayer scenario with 1 trigger for the component based system that comes with Empires.

kan_apo
Squire
posted 12-06-04 10:46 PM CT (US)     125 / 153       
It should be user friendly for starters, as people said above. And i'd very much like to see an AI creator for custom scenarios that doesn't require you to be a programmer.
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