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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires III Discussion » The Scenario Editor Thread
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Topic Subject:The Scenario Editor Thread
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Angel Aro
Squire
(id: Cherub Aro)
posted 06-15-03 01:33 AM CT (US)         
What do you think should be included in a new scenario editor if ES was to make another? Give your suggestions for a new scenario editor in this thread. The suggestions can be new conditions, effects, terrain, or just your opinion on what would make a better scenario editor. Be sure to keep the discussions relating to the main topic of this thread.

Past Editor Opinion Threads:

The Scenario Designer's Wishlist posted 05/13/03 kevingamer _AcX_
AoE III Scenario Editor posted 04/25/03 by kevingamer _AcX_
The Scenario Editor - A powerhouse or a user-friendly tool? posted 01/09/03 by Darkmaster
The OFFICIAL Scenario Editor Thread posted 12/03/02 by CrystalCrown

Angel Aro
Age of Kings Heaven Angel | Empires Heaven Angel
Events:
AuthorReplies:
TOAO_DaVe
Squire
(id: Tonto_DaVe)
posted 09-25-03 07:40 AM CT (US)     51 / 153       
In which the unit goes to an area, and a copy is created at another designated area.

Isn't that exactly the same as below?

Trigger 0
Objective: No
Trigger Description: Blank
Starting State: Either
Looping: Either

Condition 0: Bring Object to Area
Effect 0: Create Object


Signed,
DaVe.
Stealthatrix
Squire
posted 10-18-03 03:32 AM CT (US)     52 / 153       
Hi, I have a few really good ideas that should be done.

Over all:
The triggers should be more organized, and if neccessary, it should be in windows instead of a built in editor. Triggers should be copyable.

These triggers could be very handy for the types of maps people are making today.

1. We should be able to make a trigger, in which, we create object e.g. Champion, we select an area of 3x5, we should have 15 Champions on the map.

2. We should be able to change the name of a unit in an area, for example, if we want to make a unit and name it something, we could make the unit and then change name e.g. Commander, set area.

3. We should have a objects not in area trigger.

4. I dont know, but do you guys think variables could be used in editor to make it easier? If we do, we could use objects in area, equal to, fewer than, more than.

5. This one would be really help ful, every __ kills trigger, for example, if we want somebody to get 10 stone every 5 kills, we cant do that, so for that we could use this trigger.

da hobo
Squire
posted 11-03-03 08:14 AM CT (US)     53 / 153       
How about in the Create Object(s) trigger there would be a 'Quantity' option. If you set like, |45| as the Quantity and |Champion| as the unit then you set 45 places. When the trigger is fired all of the champs are created, with only one trigger. This could be useful for large explosions with macaws or petards.

"The most important thing to do in your life, is to not interfere with somebody else's life." - Zappa
VDML
Squire
posted 11-03-03 12:19 PM CT (US)     54 / 153       
i think that (e.g) a champion ought to be able to go up to a horse and ride on it rather than using triggers. also, you should be able to place ALL the cheat units

i made a jigsaw, and it took me 21 days to build it, however thats good because on the box it said 3-5 years!
-jethro
DarckRedd
Squire
posted 11-07-03 01:18 AM CT (US)     55 / 153       
A condition objects not in area, and a built in modpack studio, and I would like to see "ghost units." They represent units that have not been created yet, so you could modify name, attack HP, and the like. You should also be able to modify armor and speed. A "make industructable" effect should be included. Finally, an "object in random area" trigger. You would set an area, and the unit would apear in a space in the area.

| D A R C K R C D D |
MatthewII
Squire
posted 11-12-03 04:35 AM CT (US)     56 / 153       
How about a "make unit invincible" effect, or a "everlasting pile" effect. A "repeat effect x, N no. of times" would be good.
Nicholaswestlake
Banned
posted 11-16-03 06:51 AM CT (US)     57 / 153       
A Clone object in are trigger, it would make a blood game have 1 trigger each instead of about 50
Lionheart0231
Squire
posted 11-26-03 01:19 PM CT (US)     58 / 153       
In the naming trigger, you should be able to put the type of unit. Ex. William Wallace, you make a trigger with its starting effect off, and when activated the units name changes. same if the unit were to be created by a trigger. I guess another good thing if the scenario were to have a history, a toolbar that has everything you done, and if you mess up you can go back or just to go back for something.
Lionheart0231

Lord Of The Rings, The Adventures 83%
fishface60
Squire
posted 11-28-03 01:19 PM CT (US)     59 / 153       
Creating unit next to object, all by trigger specification, no clicking objects needed at all, hehe.

Haven't been here in years
DarckRedd
Squire
posted 11-29-03 02:38 AM CT (US)     60 / 153       

Quoted from MatthewII:

"make unit invincible" effect

I already said that one.


| D A R C K R C D D |
VDML
Squire
posted 11-30-03 06:56 AM CT (US)     61 / 153       
a few ideas

1: music in the scenario editor (it may seem trivial but it seems so plain silent)

2: an undo button

3: a load more eye candy (e.g. dead units, extra textures etc)

4: a built in modpack studio (as said before)

5: all the old units off AOK

6: ghost units (like, when you use a trigger to create them then a semi-transparent unit which you can select for triggers but does not appear in the game)

7: a few units that DON'T appear in the game

8: an option to get the computer to use cheats

9: more triggers and effects (e.g. object damaged)

10: a bring object to area trigger that actually WORKS

11: you should be able to rename things on the gaia/other list

12: be able to place 'monk with relic' (if relics still exist)

13: a lot more bugs (i know this may sound weird but i find them quite useful in making campaigns)

14: a "random select" condition

15: an option to play old AOK campaigns


i made a jigsaw, and it took me 21 days to build it, however thats good because on the box it said 3-5 years!
-jethro

[This message has been edited by VDML (edited 11-30-2003 @ 06:59 AM).]

Lionheart0231
Squire
posted 11-30-03 10:37 AM CT (US)     62 / 153       
you know, most of these ideas have been said. look at earlier posts. well, in addition to the scenario editor, how about a armor maker and weapon? like you design it and pick colors and stuff...
Lionheart0231

Lord Of The Rings, The Adventures 83%
OldGrex
Squire
posted 12-03-03 09:59 AM CT (US)     63 / 153       
Lotsa' good ideas you've come up with here, everyone. I want to emphasize and perhaps be a bit more specific about some of them.

Triggers: The copy/paste/save/edit file of just triggers is a terrific idea, so they can be transferred from one scenario to another and from one designer to another.

Caves: I would like a cave in the editor, with some functionality that makes it a bit like a Town Center. You can't build a cave - you can only find one.

  • It should be able to garrison about 5 units, of any type, but not generate any new units or research any technologies (well, mebbe it'd be neat if it could research loom & handcart-like villie upgrades).
  • When garrisoned in the cave, units can generate weak defensive fire (on command, not automatic), heal slowly, and be undetectable by passing enemies unless the garrisoned units fire on the passing enemy, or the enemy sends a military unit into the cave.
  • The cave can serve as a limited resource collection point for food, wood, gold and fresh water (see Fresh Water, below) - holding just enough of each to build a true Town Center.

Fresh Water: THE fundamental resource for human existence needs to be represented in the game. Two things here.

  • Wells, springs, and ponds, plus waterfalls (on rivers and hills/cliffs) - placeable with the editor on any map. These and shallow rivers should generate fresh water as a resource when owned by a player. Wells should be buildable by a player (and bannable with the Editor ), and required to expand population beyond 30 or so. These and the waterfalls, springs and ponds should be Gaia objects, with ownership vested in the player who controls them by having units near them). Mills and lumber/mining camps placed within 2 tiles of a waterfall should have a productivity bonus. Wells and springs should be destroyable by enemies. Players who do not control any water source at all cannot build a Town Center or increase their population.
  • A Nomad-style Random Map which distributes about three times as many fresh water sources as there are players across the various types of terrain, available both with the map editor and for on-line multiplayer setups.

Small Transport Units: One maritime (something like a rowboat, dinghy or skiff) and one land-based (something like a simple carriage/stagecoach, or even an oxcart) which can carry 2 civilian/hero units, or 1 unit and a small amount of resource (food, fresh water, wood, gold), or a moderate amount of resource.

Terrain: Long grass, sand and mud, all of which slow, but do not completely block, unit movement - paintable with the editor as well as generated in random maps.

Weather: Night, light fog, rain and snow available as trigger effects in specified areas of the map - with all reducing unit line of sight.

Gaia/Hero Objects:

  • A villager hero who can swim a limited distance (say 10 tiles), but drowns if he tries to go farther.
  • Mounted and walking flag bearer heros. Two of each - one large (think Regimental Color) and one small (think cavalry troop guidon), and a walking standard bearer (think Nine Tails or SPQR eagle) - no attack, limited LOS, but decent hit points.
  • An Inn/Caravanserai: Map Editor placeable only. Units can garrison/heal therein, and can buy some limited infomation about enemies (eg, # of military units, total population, and direction/distance to nearest TC) for gold.
  • More domestic animal food sources, especially cattle & chickens.
  • More wild animal threats, especially a venomous land snake, and two maritime predators - a shark which can attack a swimmer at sea, and a crocodile which can attack any player unit in shallow water or shallows. All should be both randomly-generated and Map Editor placeable. The sharks should by killable by warships & upgraded fishing boats, and the crocodiles by basic military units & upgraded villies. The snakes should be like a booby trap (see below).
  • A booby trap. Map Editor-placeable only. Think deadfall or punji stakes, with enough attack to kill an un-loomed villie & 50% damage a normal military unit. After causing one casualty, the booby trap is destroyed.

Quote:

That's just my opinion, sir.

(Andy Dufresne to the head prison guard, in Shawshank Redemption).

Strive For Ataraxia

[This message has been edited by OldGrex (edited 12-03-2003 @ 01:05 PM).]

KnightWhoSaysNi
Squire
posted 12-06-03 05:51 AM CT (US)     64 / 153       

Quote:

6: ghost units (like, when you use a trigger to create them then a semi-transparent unit which you can select for triggers but does not appear in the game)

This is the best idea so far; it would save hours of trigger work trying to get the units created and hidden, then revealing them.

sayonara9147
Squire
posted 12-07-03 05:11 AM CT (US)     65 / 153       
How about having something like moving rocks, or eye candy already in the editor

A great strategist - There is only one plan of action, CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Current Project
Wondering if it is more satisfying thrashing an expert or 7 noobs
Red Lord
Squire
posted 12-07-03 01:09 PM CT (US)     66 / 153       
I think more difrent efects and conditions required.
CONDITIONS

Here is one suggestion.

chat detected => hello

EFECT

create terain snow
(set area)

PS: More difrent terrains and other gaia thinks too.


"If I take one more step, this'll be the furthest from The Shire that I've ever been."
Red Lord
Squire
posted 12-07-03 01:29 PM CT (US)     67 / 153       
1)More elevations

2)More objects and units:

-more flags
-half builded buildings
-wooden bridges
-lava rocks
-mines
-pig farms
-cotages

3) We would place fire in map editor

4) More terains:

-ashland
-sand
-rocky land


"If I take one more step, this'll be the furthest from The Shire that I've ever been."
aoegolfer
Squire
posted 12-10-03 01:54 PM CT (US)     68 / 153       
I think we should be able to do these things in AOE III:

(1) A hero editor would be cool. You know a place where you can create and edit your own heros. Eh, eh…how bout' it?

(2) Also I think a spell check would also be cool. U now a spel chek wood b nice.

But seriously it would be nice to have these things.


~aoegolfer~

Proverbs 3:6
In all ways acknowlege him, and he shall direct thy paths.
I am proud to be a Mac user.
"Insanity is most incurable… So is sanity…"
heavy_swordsman
Squire
posted 12-27-03 07:48 AM CT (US)     69 / 153       
about 100 new conditions (e.g, player cheat, object found, object damaged, player quit game, unit on map, game lost, trigger activated, player taunt, kill object with object, unit move, IMPOSSIBLE. ((for objectives which you don't want the player to complete)).)

about 100 new effects (e.g., change object picture, game crash, anti-research tech, change object range, make unit invisible, make unit invincible, pause game, save game, not see area)

An option to create and remove terrain.

A built in modpack studio

something to rename uncreated objects (e.g. ghost units)

every unit should have a hero equivalent


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heavy_Swordsman<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
da hobo
Squire
posted 12-29-03 09:46 AM CT (US)     70 / 153       

Quote:

player quit game

Erm... if the player quits, then not much is going to happen.

Quote:

game lost

See above ^

Quote:

trigger activated

lol. Err, when a trigger activates, it fires anyway, so there is no point to that.

Quote:

player taunt, kill object with object,

Useful.

Quote:

object found

Err, Object Visible?

Quote:

kill object with object,

Might come in handy.

Quote:

IMPOSSIBLE

I'd rather just be able to make Objectives without triggers.

Quote:

unit move

Pointless.

Quote:

Unit on Map

??

Quote:

change object picture

To what? Use mods.

Quote:

make unit invisible, make unit invincible,

That takes the fun out of making fantasy campaigns.

Quote:

save game

Hmmm... what would this be used for?

Quote:

game crash

No. If the camp uses mods, they become permanent. Also, crashes can be harmful to the game files.

Quote:

anti-research tech,

Useful.

Quote:

not see area

?


"The most important thing to do in your life, is to not interfere with somebody else's life." - Zappa
heavy_swordsman
Squire
posted 01-23-04 12:41 PM CT (US)     71 / 153       
won't it be more difficult to design for AOEIII? they will have probably edited out some of the more useful bugs, including
* rotating cliffs to make invisible barriers (likely)
* map-copy combining buildings (almost certainly)
* accessing BETA units (possibly)



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heavy_Swordsman<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Endoras_the_Elf
Squire
posted 02-29-04 01:17 PM CT (US)     72 / 153       
You should be able to change an area's name instead of just an object. You should also be able a turn off player control and turn on letterbog bars, but no tech. cinimactic work like age of myth.
HidingUnderMyBed
Squire
posted 03-29-04 05:05 PM CT (US)     73 / 153       
Here's an idea: move object to area (not task object) for a fantasy campaign if you want to have some sort of warp point.

A unit editor to edit the overall stats of a particular unit so you don't have use individual actions to edit the name/hp/attack ect. You should also be able to decrease hp and attack without using the work-around, (c'mon this is 'merica, we don't need t' do all that subtracting from that really big number)

Namable Locations! It would be nice to lay out and name all the locations before making triggers, it's more managable and easier (no accidently selecting a unit when trying to lay out the area.)

movable locations effect, can help add some randomness to the scenario.

variables (less-than, greater-than, equal-to) No more tedious work-arounds using a dummy player for special triggers.

more multiplayer support to a the trigger system, for instance, a way for the object selected condition to detect WHICH player is selecting the object so if selecting the object spawns objects for the player selecting the object, than more than one person can activate the trigger. Like OBJECT-SELECTED BY CURRENT-PLAYER ("Current Player" being whomever selected the object, not a set player, if that's understandable)

Well, that's all I can think of. All these ideas were borrowed from the Starcraft campaign editor (Why does a 2-year older game have a 100-times more powerful campaign editor than the later one???)

*EDIT*
Ahhh, I thought of more:
AN INGAME SCORE BOARD!!!!!
It would be really nice to be able to keep kills, razings, buildings destroyed, deaths, conversions, ect. scores for victory and rank conditions and special trigger conditions without using resources to keep score. Also you should be able to create custom score labels (eg - Player one has 126 peices of the true cross or something to that effect.)

A FREEZE GAME effect that would freeze the game while two objects hold a conversation, like maybe a Knight Hero having a monolog with the player just before his death in the midst of an epic battle with the enemies frozen all around to make it real cinematic or to keep your units from attacking other units and distracting you from an important conversation.

A CENTER VIEW AT UNIT so you can can maybe center the view at an important random event, like a hero dieing or something like that.

These are yet more features added by Starcraft that sadly weren't implemented in AoE II.

[This message has been edited by HidingUnderMyBed (edited 03-29-2004 @ 05:27 PM).]

DarckRedd
Squire
posted 04-01-04 11:37 PM CT (US)     74 / 153       

Quote:

To what? Use mods.

But with trigs you can change the pic midway through the scn.


| D A R C K R C D D |
The_True_Deimos
Squire
posted 04-16-04 04:46 AM CT (US)     75 / 153       
I think a trigger that works like the macro system in excel would be good. Say if you wanted a whole city to be destroyed, all you would have to do is build tons of saboteurs with a cheat, and destroy it. However, this would look pretty lame, so when you play the macro through, the whole macro plays through immediately, quicker than the eye can see. If you wanted, you could slow the speed down. This would also allow you to customize the speed of tasked units.
I suggest this because I have a city that covers a large proportion of a giant size map, but if I try to destroy it using Kill or Remove object(s) (using the area part of the trigger) the game crashes a second before this happens, which wrecks it somewhat.
Another thing in the scenario editor that would be good would be backwatrds compatibility with other age games. You could even have age of mythology in there. You could choose to install this function when you first put the disk in your pc (it might take up rather a lot of space).
Final idea. The last thing I might like to see in the scenario editor is a freestanding explosion like you set the Trigger to:

Condition: Timer "30secs"
Effect: Explosion
Set Object
Set Area
Damage Object: _____HP

You could include Source/Target player as well, and maybe a 'size' for the explosion would be determined by the radius (so that you don't just have an explosion the size of a villy destroying a city.
This would allow things like air raids in modern or fantasy scenarios, magic, and an easy way to damage objects. You could also use this as a trap in puzzle games, so when you set the condition to object in area, and he walks into that area BOOM he's dead .

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