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Cyrus_
Banned
posted 10-07-08 02:58 AM CT (US)         
i'm not exactly new to this site, just logged in after a long break from the net, news, everything. I was interested in designing back in the day, but these days I just lurk. Love the changes with the site

Anywho I noticed a "politics is allowed" sign and decided to see if any of you are interested in politics. I've been talking to my family a lot about the election and the economy and it really sparked my interest in the subject. And since I'm not looking for trouble the moderator can ban anybody he wants, in fact I encourage it.



For those of you interested in the election in the United States, what are your thoughts on the candidates given the debates that have happened so far?

[This message has been edited by Cyrus_ (edited 10-07-2008 @ 03:06 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-05-08 00:27 AM CT (US)     101 / 142       
Hail Obama, das neue Fuhrer!

That's right, it was all a trick. He's actually the reincarnation of Hitla!

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
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Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 11-05-08 02:01 AM CT (US)     102 / 142       
Ornlu
Recreational Procreator
posted 11-05-08 05:14 AM CT (US)     103 / 142       
Congratulations Americans. I hope you realise what an incredible moment this is.

I suddenly have huge respect for the Americans and now it is a country and concept to look up to, to follow and admire. For the first time I felt like it is something I want to be part of.

I know that these sentiments are shared by many people in Europe. I'm sure it applies all over the world.

None of us are free, one of us is chained.
Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 11-05-08 07:24 AM CT (US)     104 / 142       
Yeah, it just seems like such a historic moment.
Major Helper
AoKH Survivor, Mr. White Teeth
posted 11-05-08 07:37 AM CT (US)     105 / 142       
I think the Kenians are partying like crazy now

I'm pretty sure most of the world heaved a sigh of relief when Obama became the president.

Although now he has such a huge pile of crap to wade thorugh now let's hope he won't get crushed under the pressure.

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Cobra the Mediocre
Squire
(id: The_Cobra_81)
posted 11-05-08 08:33 AM CT (US)     106 / 142       
I suddenly have huge respect for the Americans and now it is a country and concept to look up to, to follow and admire. For the first time I felt like it is something I want to be part of.
Was that... a joke? Or are you actually serious?

Let's face it: all we've done is elect another politician. There's no call to get excited whatsoever.

Cobra the Mediocre
SteadilY working up to Average
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
(Age of Kings Heaven) (The Renegades)
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-05-08 08:56 AM CT (US)     107 / 142       
I know that these sentiments are shared by many people in Europe. I'm sure it applies all over the world.
By the naive and the ignorant, sure. In truth, Obama's two winning propaganda tricks (change and making McCain look like Bush) don't mean shite. McCain is very different from Bush in most policies, maybe save the war in Iraq, and change... sheesh, that's just utter bull.

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
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[This message has been edited by morgoth bauglir (edited 11-05-2008 @ 10:10 AM).]

sissi
Squire
posted 11-05-08 09:22 AM CT (US)     108 / 142       
Hi everybody,
Please don't flame Ornlu,I for one cannot help sharing his feelings ,because Obama is such a powerful SYMBOL for Human Rights, not a mere US politician. Even if it was meant so, even if I think that Grisham's 'Pelican' gives a better idea of what is really involved here...As human beings,we're all dreaming of a better world so let's feed our illusions the way we can!
Cyrus_
Banned
posted 11-05-08 04:49 PM CT (US)     109 / 142       
"Let's face it: all we've done is elect another politician. There's no call to get excited whatsoever."
The first African American president and that's a cause worthy to get excited over. It may not seem like much but just 50 years ago they were fighting to end segregation in this country and now we elected our first black president. It may be just another politician, but civil rights has just been given a shot of adrenaline. I think Ornlu's comment was directed more towards America electing a minority president despite all odds and Bradley Effects that could've happened, and the man got a mandate too of over 330 electoral votes and the popular vote. That's huge.

And we have no idea what he'll do yet to try to recover the country. There have been politicians who transformed our country and there's no way to prove whether he'll join their ranks or not.
"In truth, Obama's two winning propaganda tricks (change and making McCain look like Bush) don't mean shite. McCain is very different from Bush in most policies, maybe save the war in Iraq, and change... sheesh, that's just utter bull."
McCain used every dirty trick in the book to make people fear Obama and fear Obama's change and portray him as something he wasn't, so it balanced out quite a bit. Plus, McCAin was far closer to Bush than Obama ever was to Ayers. Obama ran by far a more respectable campaign.
"Even if it was meant so, even if I think that Grisham's 'Pelican' gives a better idea of what is really involved here...As human beings,we're all dreaming of a better world so let's feed our illusions the way we can!"
i see no problem with hoping for the best. After eight years of a conservative president, I'd like to see what Obama does at the helm.
four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 11-05-08 05:30 PM CT (US)     110 / 142       
They announced it when I was at the gym, and I said "yay" and benched 20 reps of 300. Just kidding, but seriously, it is pretty cool. Congratulations to Obama.
Andanu Trisatya
Squire
posted 11-05-08 05:39 PM CT (US)     111 / 142       
You got to admit that propaganda tricks has always been a lethal weapon to be used in the field of political clash. It's much more easier to convince society to actually take someone else's notoriety for granted than carrying much conviction for them regarding your own grandeur. After all, lies are easier to believe than the truth regardless of to what extent you exaggerate on it, especially in a momentous worldwide occasion like this. Whether it's true or false, both Obama and McCain have their own way of bringing their opposer down.

I don't blame them, but I honestly feel it's still too early for the Kenyans, the Iraqis, and other parts of the world to be so hyped up about it. A more trustworthy candidate might have won the election, but until he shows what he's truly got in his 'book of change', they shouldn't place themselves in a state of relish just yet. I'm curious of how is he going to act with, say, the Palestine-Israel conflict. Rumor has it he's more supportive towards the Jews, and that'd make him another Bush offspring, but time will tell. Congrats to him by the way.

By the way, I've just found out that Obama once studied in an Indonesian elementary school for a few years. Though this fact is for show-off purposes only, and irrelevant to my views toward the man of the year.

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[This message has been edited by Indonesian Knight (edited 11-05-2008 @ 05:58 PM).]

Ornlu
Recreational Procreator
posted 11-05-08 06:05 PM CT (US)     112 / 142       
Was that... a joke? Or are you actually serious?

Let's face it: all we've done is elect another politician. There's no call to get excited whatsoever.
I am entirely serious. I am referring to the person and his background and not his politics, which I care little about.

I am an immigrant in my country and I have Persian origin. I am completely integrated, I am ambitious and I know that I will succeed with whatever I choose to do. Still, there are things to be pessimistic about.

The situation in Sweden regarding racism and prejudice is quite similar to that in the USA. Discrimination is something that is looked down upon but which still occurs behind the scenes. At least that is the general consensus. When one of the beacons of the democratic world take an initiative like this, it gives me and many others plenty of hope.

When the most powerful man on Earth is named Barack Hussein Obama and is coloured, what barriers could possibly exist for me? Don't underestimate the symbolic importance of this.

None of us are free, one of us is chained.
nav
Squire
(id: nav_2004)
posted 11-05-08 07:18 PM CT (US)     113 / 142       
Hearing this ^ and discussions like it is a big part of why I still visit this forum. Even through little old AoKH my horizons are expanded.

Ornlu, I must admit that my heritage did not previously allow me to think about things as you just stated them. Maybe I'm overly cynical or maybe it's just because I'm not a minority in this country, but prior to you saying that I had never thought about Obama's election in that light. I was pretty much in line with Cobra. Thanks for sharing.

I'll admit, even before this I was personally glad to not see racism carry the day.



(This space intentionally left blank.)
Mapppp
Squire
(id: Jimmy2)
posted 11-05-08 07:37 PM CT (US)     114 / 142       
This is a turning point for America simply because people were able to buck the trend of racism and white supremacy that has run in the country's veins since slavery was introduced.

I'm glad that Obama won simply because the alternate, McCain, was the safer candidate: Less change, more tradition. Instead of continuing down our current trail to disaster, at least the American people could try something new. I'm not quite sure whether Obama will be a good president, but at least he's bringing new policies to the White House after eight stale years.

This is what Martin Luther King Jr. and so many others have been fighting for. I was almost certain that America would never have a black man in the White House up to the final election. Until the moment Obama was announced President, I thought that old hatreds in the American populace would triumph. I am proud of America for being able to ignore bias.
When the most powerful man on Earth is named Barack Hussein Obama and is coloured, what barriers could possibly exist for me? Don't underestimate the symbolic importance of this.
Exactly.

◓◓◓◓◓
Cobra the Mediocre
Squire
(id: The_Cobra_81)
posted 11-05-08 08:40 PM CT (US)     115 / 142       
I am referring to the person and his background and not his politics, which I care little about.
The inspirational image he projects is nice and all, but at the end of the day it means nothing compared to the reality that another wealthy politician runs things around here.

I guess what I'm really saying is: Let's wait before this guy does something actually useful as president before we call him an inspiration. I won't hold my breath, but you're welcome to.

Cobra the Mediocre
SteadilY working up to Average
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
(Age of Kings Heaven) (The Renegades)
Luke Gevaerts
Squire
posted 11-05-08 11:52 PM CT (US)     116 / 142       
McCain used every dirty trick in the book to make people fear Obama and fear Obama's change and portray him as something he wasn't, so it balanced out quite a bit. Plus, McCAin was far closer to Bush than Obama ever was to Ayers. Obama ran by far a more respectable campaign.
If I recall correctly, I think McCain was never happy with the smear campaign he waged... I think I read something about it not being something of his own creation, and that he only kept up with it due to popular vote within his party. That may mean jack shit, but he did keep the race card up his sleeve where he could have played it, and at some point explicitly forbade anyone else on his team to play it... I guess that's saying something.

What I find amusing is that McCain and Obama are actually a lot alike on some major issues. I, for one, find it hard to believe that there's others who believe that McCain would have continued the war in Iraq where Bush left off... Both Obama and McCain had planned to pull troops out of Iraq and reinforce the troops in Afghanistan instead. Obama now gets to put that plan in motion, but it's just an example in any case.

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Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 11-06-08 02:59 AM CT (US)     117 / 142       
Interesting behind-the-scenes article published by Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581/page/1

There was another by the Huffington post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/palin-didnt-know-africa-i_n_141653.html

Some tidbits (things that the magazines had promised not to release until after Nov 4th):
  • However, perhaps one of the most astounding and previously unknown tidbits about Sarah Palin has to do with her already dubious grasp of geography. According to Fox News Chief Political Correspondent Carl Cameron, there was great concern within the McCain campaign that Palin lacked "a degree of knowledgeability necessary to be a running mate, a vice president, a heartbeat away from the presidency," in part because she didn't know which countries were in NAFTA, and she "didn't understand that Africa was a continent, rather than a series, a country just in itself."

  • Palin was apparently a nightmare for her campaign staff to deal with. She refused preparation help for her interview with Katie Couric and then blamed her staff, specifically Nicole Wallace, when the interview was panned as a disaster. After the Couric interview, Fox News reported, Palin turned nasty with her staff and began to accuse them of mishandling her. Palin would view press clippings of herself in the morning and throw "tantrums" over the negative coverage. There were times when she would be so nasty and angry that her staff was reduced to tears.
  • McCain himself rarely spoke to Palin during the campaign, and aides kept him in the dark about the details of her spending on clothes because they were sure he would be offended. Palin asked to speak along with McCain at his Arizona concession speech Tuesday night, but campaign strategist Steve Schmidt vetoed the request.

  • The Obama campaign was provided with reports from the Secret Service showing a sharp and disturbing increase in threats to Obama in September and early October, at the same time that many crowds at Palin rallies became more frenzied. Michelle Obama was shaken by the vituperative crowds and the hot rhetoric from the GOP candidates. "Why would they try to make people hate us?" Michelle asked a top campaign aide.

  • On the Sunday night before the last debate, McCain's core group of advisers—Steve Schmidt, Rick Davis, adman Fred Davis, strategist Greg Strimple, pollster Bill McInturff and strategy director Sarah Simmons—met to decide whether to tell McCain that the race was effectively over, that he no longer had a chance to win. The consensus in the room was no, not yet, not while he still had "a pulse."

  • The Obama campaign's New Media experts created a computer program that would allow a "flusher"—the term for a volunteer who rounds up nonvoters on Election Day—to know exactly who had, and had not, voted in real time. They dubbed it Project Houdini, because of the way names disappear off the list instantly once people are identified as they wait in line at their local polling station.

  • Palin launched her attack on Obama's association with William Ayers, the former Weather Underground bomber, before the campaign had finalized a plan to raise the issue. McCain's advisers were working on a strategy that they hoped to unveil the following week, but McCain had not signed off on it, and top adviser Mark Salter was resisting.
    McCain also was reluctant to use Obama's incendiary pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, as a campaign issue. The Republican had set firm boundaries: no Jeremiah Wright; no attacking Michelle Obama; no attacking Obama for not serving in the military. McCain balked at an ad using images of children that suggested that Obama might not protect them from terrorism. Schmidt vetoed ads suggesting that Obama was soft on crime (no Willie Hortons). And before word even got to McCain, Schmidt and Salter scuttled a "celebrity" ad of Obama dancing with talk-show host Ellen DeGeneres (the sight of a black man dancing with a lesbian was deemed too provocative).

  • Obama was never inclined to choose Sen. Hillary Clinton as his running mate, not so much because she had been his sometime bitter rival on the campaign trail, but because of her husband. Still, as Hillary's name came up in veep discussions, and Obama's advisers gave all the reasons why she should be kept off the ticket, Obama would stop and ask, "Are we sure?" He needed to be convinced one more time that the Clintons would do more harm than good. McCain, on the other hand, was relieved to face Sen. Joe Biden as the veep choice, and not Hillary Clinton, whom the McCain camp had truly feared.

  • McCain was dumbfounded when Congressman John Lewis, a civil-rights hero, issued a press release comparing the GOP nominee with former Alabama governor George Wallace, a segregationist infamous for stirring racial fears. McCain had devoted a chapter to Lewis in one of his books, "Why Courage Matters," and had so admired Lewis that he had once taken his children to meet him.

  • On the night she officially lost the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton enjoyed a long and friendly phone conversation with McCain. Clinton was actually on better terms with McCain than she was with Obama. Clinton and McCain had downed shots together on Senate junkets; they regarded each other as grizzled veterans of the political wars and shared a certain disdain for Obama as flashy and callow.

  • The debates unnerved both candidates. When he was preparing for them during the Democratic primaries, Obama was recorded saying, "I don't consider this to be a good format for me, which makes me more cautious. I often find myself trapped by the questions and thinking to myself, 'You know, this is a stupid question, but let me … answer it.' So when Brian Williams is asking me about what's a personal thing that you've done [that's green], and I say, you know, 'Well, I planted a bunch of trees.' And he says, 'I'm talking about personal.' What I'm thinking in my head is, 'Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I f---ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective'."
  • McCain sounds like an honestly good guy brought down by politics. However, the one that upset and disturbed me the most:

  • At the GOP convention in St. Paul, Palin was completely unfazed by the boys' club fraternity she had just joined. One night, Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter went to her hotel room to brief her. After a minute, Palin sailed into the room wearing nothing but a towel, with another on her wet hair. She told them to chat with her laconic husband, Todd. "I'll be just a minute," she said.

    PICS OR IT NEVER HAPPENED, EH?!

    Your attractive master.
    "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"

    [This message has been edited by Aro (edited 11-06-2008 @ 03:35 AM).]

  • Enraged Orange
    Squire
    (id: RoboPaul88)
    posted 11-06-08 09:37 AM CT (US)     118 / 142       
    If I recall correctly, I think McCain was never happy with the smear campaign he waged... I think I read something about it not being something of his own creation, and that he only kept up with it due to popular vote within his party. That may mean jack shit, but he did keep the race card up his sleeve where he could have played it, and at some point explicitly forbade anyone else on his team to play it... I guess that's saying something.
    Yep. He let himself be advised by the wrong people, and his legacy is going to be destroyed by it.
    What I find amusing is that McCain and Obama are actually a lot alike on some major issues. I, for one, find it hard to believe that there's others who believe that McCain would have continued the war in Iraq where Bush left off... Both Obama and McCain had planned to pull troops out of Iraq and reinforce the troops in Afghanistan instead. Obama now gets to put that plan in motion, but it's just an example in any case.
    Obama and McCain agree on very few of the major issues in America. And McCain was very adamant throughout his campaign that he was going to keep troops in Iraq for however long it took to get the job done, whatever that meant, and that he viewed pulling them out as surrender. Considering how unpopular the war is, it's a little ridiculous to assume that was just political posturing. All his more moderate views aside, McCain is and always has been definitely one of the most strongly hawkish members of the Senate.

    (incidentally - Cherub? Did you get demoted? )
    I'm curious of how is he going to act with, say, the Palestine-Israel conflict. Rumor has it he's more supportive towards the Jews, and that'd make him another Bush offspring, but time will tell. Congrats to him by the way.
    Pretty much all U.S. politicians and most of the U.S. population are strongly pro-Israel, so it's a little unfair to say that holding that position makes him "another Bush offspring."
    When the most powerful man on Earth is named Barack Hussein Obama and is coloured, what barriers could possibly exist for me? Don't underestimate the symbolic importance of this.
    Very well said. For American blacks especially, who until the 1965 Voting Rights Act - a mere 43 years ago - couldn't even vote in parts of the country, this is huge.

    [This message has been edited by Enraged Orange (edited 11-06-2008 @ 09:41 AM).]

    Jatayu
    Squire
    (id: Sword_of_STORM)
    posted 11-06-08 10:17 AM CT (US)     119 / 142       
    I'm curious as to whether the votes have actually been counted or it's still just newspaper talk..

    ,
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    Ornlu
    Recreational Procreator
    posted 11-06-08 12:43 PM CT (US)     120 / 142       
    The inspirational image he projects is nice and all, but at the end of the day it means nothing compared to the reality that another wealthy politician runs things around here.

    I guess what I'm really saying is: Let's wait before this guy does something actually useful as president before we call him an inspiration. I won't hold my breath, but you're welcome to.
    I'm not quite sure that you're getting my point here. Whether he succeeds or fails as a president, the global effects of this appointment will remain. Prior to this election, many regarded America as a home of bigotry, prejudice and nepotism in the West. Appointing George W. Bush for his name, and using Barack Hussein Obama's name and background as an argument against voting him? Come on, that is terrifying stuff.

    He might be a horrible president or he might an excellent one, but a point has been made and stereotypes have been shattered.

    None of us are free, one of us is chained.
    Ornlu
    Recreational Procreator
    posted 11-06-08 02:08 PM CT (US)     121 / 142       
    Interesting article on this matter:

    VIENNA, Austria She was a stranger, and she kissed me. Just for being an American.

    It happened on the bus on my way to work Wednesday morning, a few hours after compatriots clamoring for change swept Barack Obama to his historic victory. I was on the phone, and the 20-something Austrian woman seated in front of me overheard me speaking English.

    Without a word, she turned, pecked me on the cheek and stepped off at the next stop.

    Nothing was said, but the message was clear: Today, we are all Americans.

    For longtime U.S. expatriates like me _ someone far more accustomed to being targeted over unpopular policies, for having my very Americanness publicly assailed _ it feels like an extraordinary turnabout.

    Like a long journey over a very bumpy road has abruptly come to an end.

    And it's not just me.

    An American colleague in Egypt says several people came up to her on the streets of Cairo and said: "America, hooray!" Others, including strangers, expressed congratulations with a smile and a hand over their hearts.
    Story continues below

    Another colleague, in Amman, says Jordanians stopped her on the street and that several women described how they wept with joy.

    When you're an American abroad, you can quickly become a whipping post. Regardless of your political affiliation, if you happen to be living and working overseas at a time when the United States has antagonized much of the world, you get a lot of grief.

    You can find yourself pressed to be some kind of apologist for Washington. And you can wind up feeling ashamed and alone.

    I'll never forget a ride in a taxi in Vienna when the world was waking up to the abuses wrought by U.S. troops at the detention center for suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

    My driver, a Muslim, was indignant. "You are American, yes?" he asked in that accusatory tone so familiar to many expats.

    "Uh, no, Canadian," I said.

    And it wasn't the first time I fudged where I was from. I speak three foreign languages, so I have a bit of flexibility when it comes to faking. At various times, I've been a German in Serbia, a Frenchman in Turkey, a Dutchman in Austria.

    I'm not proud of it. But when you're far from home, and you're feeling cornered, you develop what you come to believe are survival skills.

    Last spring, after the Bush administration recognized Kosovo's independence, a Serb who overheard my American-accented English lobbed a beer can at me in central Vienna. He missed, but spat out an unflattering "Amerikanac" and told me where to go.

    On another occasion, an Austrian who heard my teenage daughter chatting with a friend pursued her, screaming, "Go Home!"

    Physical attacks on Americans overseas are rare. Yet some of us felt vaguely at risk.

    Maybe it was just the hostility we'd encounter even in friendly venues such as cocktail parties, when our foreign hosts would surround us and demand to know why U.S. troops were roughing up inmates at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison. Or refusing to sign the U.N. Convention Against Torture. Or rejecting the Kyoto accord on climate change.

    Maybe it was the State Department, which issues regular travel advisories urging Americans to keep a low profile even in tranquil Austria.

    Often, of course, I've pushed back _ reminding critics that most Americans are decent and generous souls, quick to respond with money and manpower whenever and wherever in the world catastrophe may strike.

    My children came of age in Europe, and in a hostile post-9/11 world we had to teach them to avoid being too conspicuously American. Don't speak English loudly on the subway. Don't wear baseball caps and tennis shoes. Don't single yourselves out, guys, and even worldly wise Americans can unwittingly become targets.

    We didn't overdo it, but there's always been that tension. That difficult-to-describe sense of vulnerability. That nagging instinct that maybe we'd better watch it, because our government is intensely unpopular and we're not entirely welcome.

    I know Americans who at times have felt that way even in laid-back Vienna, where the greatest danger is probably eating a bad pastry.

    That's what made Wednesday's unsolicited kiss so remarkable.

    I don't want to read too much into an innocent smooch, but it didn't feel particularly pro-Obama, even though the new U.S. president-elect enjoys broad support here. No, it seemed to impart two sentiments I haven't felt for a long time: friendship and admiration.

    Obama captured it in his acceptance speech _ this sense that despite holding America's feet to the fire, the rest of the world is rooting for it and wants it to lead and succeed.

    "Our destiny is shared," he said, "and a new dawn of American leadership is at hand."

    Overnight, Americans did something their harshest critics in Europe have yet to do: elect a person of color as head of state and commander in chief. That gives U.S. citizens some bragging rights, even if a lot of us would just as soon eschew hubris and embrace humility.

    I'm a marathon runner, and I have a red, white and blue singlet that I've seldom dared to wear on the Continent. Marathons are difficult enough without enduring catcalls and jeers from spectators.

    But my best friend and training partner _ who is French _ just gave me his stamp of approval.

    "Will you wear your Stars and Stripes shirt now? You're allowed!" he told me.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_election_an_american_abroad

    None of us are free, one of us is chained.
    Cobra the Mediocre
    Squire
    (id: The_Cobra_81)
    posted 11-06-08 03:17 PM CT (US)     122 / 142       
    Glad to hear we need the French's approval to be patriotic.
    I'm curious as to whether the votes have actually been counted or it's still just newspaper talk..
    McCain conceded. The votes no longer matter. Not that they did to begin with...
    Prior to this election, many regarded America as a home of bigotry, prejudice and nepotism in the West.
    And I'm saying it still is. Want to guess how the election would have gone if Obama was not mixed race, but actually Black? How about if he had been Asian or Latino? And let's not forget how many death threats the poor guy already has, even before taking office.

    And let's not forget: Electing Obama has prevented another milestone, the first female vice president. Strictly speaking, women of any color are far more underrepresented in politics than any male minority. So really, shouldn't you be complaining that the election has reinforced the sexist image of the United States and pretty much every other country in the world?

    No, you shouldn't. As much crap as I'm heaping on Obama, he's still much better than Palinization.

    Cobra the Mediocre
    SteadilY working up to Average
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    (Age of Kings Heaven) (The Renegades)
    Ornlu
    Recreational Procreator
    posted 11-06-08 04:07 PM CT (US)     123 / 142       
    And I'm saying it still is. Want to guess how the election would have gone if Obama was not mixed race, but actually Black? How about if he had been Asian or Latino? And let's not forget how many death threats the poor guy already has, even before taking office.

    And let's not forget: Electing Obama has prevented another milestone, the first female vice president. Strictly speaking, women of any color are far more underrepresented in politics than any male minority. So really, shouldn't you be complaining that the election has reinforced the sexist image of the United States and pretty much every other country in the world?

    No, you shouldn't. As much crap as I'm heaping on Obama, he's still much better than Palinization.
    One step at a time. This was the first time an American president (or any Western president in my memory) hasn't been a white male. This will encourage people of different gender and race to consider a career in politics.

    None of us are free, one of us is chained.
    nav
    Squire
    (id: nav_2004)
    posted 11-06-08 06:44 PM CT (US)     124 / 142       
    That may mean jack shit, but he did keep the race card up his sleeve where he could have played it, and at some point explicitly forbade anyone else on his team to play it... I guess that's saying something.
    Perhaps on the national level his campaign didn't play the race card, but they sure did in the state of Ohio. A whole lot of us in small town Ohio were absolutely bombarded with phone calls leading up to the election. Many of them implicitly played the race card. While none of them actually explicitly came out and said it, the message was clear: "You're not going to vote for that dirty , are you?" It was absolutely infuriating to have a recording on the other end of the phone saying this day after day after day.

    I'm not sure how much personal involvement McCain had with this (my guess is very little), but it was still on his watch and wrong.



    (This space intentionally left blank.)
    Mapppp
    Squire
    (id: Jimmy2)
    posted 11-06-08 06:49 PM CT (US)     125 / 142       
    Perhaps on the national level his campaign didn't play the race card, but they sure did in the state of Ohio. A whole lot of us in small town Ohio were absolutely bombarded with phone calls leading up to the election. Many of them implicitly played the race card. While none of them actually explicitly came out and said it, the message was clear: "You're not going to vote for that dirty , are you?" It was absolutely infuriating to have a recording on the other end of the phone saying this day after day after day.
    While I don't live in small town Ohio, I do live in a Conservative Zone, where McCain signs were everywhere, and where people would jump down your throat if you said anything positive about Obama. However, I got a lot of phone calls from his campaign, not McCain's. They were just annoying, but nothing bad was said in them.

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