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Topic Subject:US election
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Cyrus_
Banned
posted 10-07-08 02:58 AM CT (US)         
i'm not exactly new to this site, just logged in after a long break from the net, news, everything. I was interested in designing back in the day, but these days I just lurk. Love the changes with the site

Anywho I noticed a "politics is allowed" sign and decided to see if any of you are interested in politics. I've been talking to my family a lot about the election and the economy and it really sparked my interest in the subject. And since I'm not looking for trouble the moderator can ban anybody he wants, in fact I encourage it.



For those of you interested in the election in the United States, what are your thoughts on the candidates given the debates that have happened so far?

[This message has been edited by Cyrus_ (edited 10-07-2008 @ 03:06 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-17-08 06:36 AM CT (US)     76 / 142       
I'd also like to go on a brief tangent here - as you may have gathered, I quite strongly support Obama over McCain here. But before the election season began, McCain was my first choice over anyone else in the whole field of candidates. He waged a great and honorable primary campaign in 2000...but it didn't work. Bush's nasty and very dishonorable campaign (having people call voters in South Carolina and ask "are you aware that McCain has a black child," referring to his adopted Bangladeshi daughter, but obviously trying to imply that he had some "negro love child" or some such horror) did win. Sadly, I think this taught the Republican Party a lesson.

McCain's campaign in 2008 has been downright shameful. First, the pick of Palin. Completely irresponsible. When asked how he would make his decision he said he'd pick whoever he felt was the second best qualified person to be President. And I believe he sincerely intended to. All reports indicate that he wanted to choose Joe Lieberman, but his advisers said that it would be political suicide, that such a liberal pick would alienate the neoconservative base that the Republicans have come to rely on. So he went the other direction, and picked Sarah Palin.

Two reasons to do this. One - she is extremely conservative. She opposes abortion even in cases of rape or incest. If a teenage girl is raped by her father, Sarah Palin would be against her having the right to abort the child. This is the kind of stuff neocons love. Second reason - women. And this was the key. Hillary supporters, right after the primaries wrapped up, were disillusioned, upset that Hillary didn't get the respect they thought she deserved. The McCain campaign thought that these women were idiots, that they would switch over to vote for a ticket with a woman on it, even if that woman had practically opposite views from Hillary, even though Obama's views are practically identical.

The best way to do this would be if Obama or gaffe-prone Joe Biden slipped up and made some comment that could be construed as sexist. Neither of them did. So the McCain campaign made one up. The "lipstick on a pig" comment. A common expression - one that McCain himself had used to describe a policy of Hillary Clinton's! This backfired. No one bought it, and the credibility McCain had so thoroughly won in 2000 started to disappear.

Palin is currently being investigated for corruption by the Alaskan legislature. She had never met a foreign leader until a couple of weeks ago - hell, she never even owned a passport until a year and a half ago. She went to the renowned institution of Idaho State University, where she majored in...journalism. She has demonstrated a lack of knowledge on practically every issue in all of her interviews - anyone who doubts this needs only to watch hers with Katie Couric. For McCain to put this woman one elderly heartbeat away from the presidency is beyond irresponsible.

And now his campaign tactics are getting worse. According to a report by the University of Wisconsin, "nearly 100 percent of the McCain campaign’s advertisements were negative" from Sep. 28 - Oct. 4. Say what you will, but Obama's numbers were nowhere near that - only 34% during the same week. And this Bill Ayers garbage. See my post above about that. William Timmons, a man who defended Saddam Hussein and whom McCain has trusted with one of the highest positions in his campaign, is the person we should be afraid of.

At this point the polls suggest that a McCain victory is very unlikely. He is currently behind in Nevada, Missouri, Ohio, Virginia, and Florida, and neck-and-neck in North Carolina. Unless a state that Obama is currently winning handily flips, McCain must win literally all of those states to win. And if he does lose, this campaign is going to destroy the legacy he built over decades in the Senate. He won't be remembered for his classy showing in 2000, for his courage to stand up against the Bush administration on issues like torture, none of that - his legacy will be that of the guy who sold himself out to try to win in 2008. For a guy who's been one of America's best Senators for years, that's truly saddening.

Well I definitely didn't mean to go on this long in these posts, but I really felt that newIdea's statements needed addressing, and I wanted to clarify that I've always respected McCain until recently; I'm not some rabid liberal. But anyway, enough of that now

[This message has been edited by Enraged Orange (edited 10-17-2008 @ 06:43 AM).]

Cyrus_
Banned
posted 10-18-08 09:35 PM CT (US)     77 / 142       
agree completely and thank you Enraged Orange, very glad to have an educated American Obama voter in here to defend his position.
Nax
Squire
(id: Ensemble_Nut)
posted 10-23-08 07:56 AM CT (US)     78 / 142       
This is a completely, utterly uninformed statement, as I'm both underage and not American, but:

Go Obama.

He seems a nice, honest guy (Hur hur hur- if he was, he wouldn't be a politician) but at least he did not elect on of the most irritating people I know to be his running mate.

Oh, and I'm back. Dunno how long for.

Quote (anonymous) You are the
smartest, yet dumbest person I've
ever met.

LOST: Brain. Pretty small. Lost
several years ago at birth. small reward.
Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-26-08 03:55 AM CT (US)     79 / 142       
man newIdea how you gonna straight ignore that hella long post I spent like 6 hours making?
Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 10-26-08 06:33 AM CT (US)     80 / 142       
I especially love the interview with Palin about what newspapers she reads.

Q: What newspapers do you read?
A: All of them
Q: But which in particular?
A: All of them
General_Zavier
Squire
posted 10-27-08 06:44 PM CT (US)     81 / 142       
Alaskan Senator Stevens found guilty of seven counts of corruption

Sorry I don't have time to make a more thoughtful post, I'll come back later and do that, but how do you think this will affect the reputation of Sarah Palin?

(Oh and take that newIdea! Think you can bash my state and get away with it that easily? )

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. ~Niels Bohr
No matter how hard you try, you cannot outwit stupid people. ~Anonymous
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four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 10-27-08 08:01 PM CT (US)     82 / 142       
Awesome post.
The best way to do this would be if Obama or gaffe-prone Joe Biden slipped up and made some comment that could be construed as sexist. Neither of them did. So the McCain campaign made one up. The "lipstick on a pig" comment. A common expression - one that McCain himself had used to describe a policy of Hillary Clinton's! This backfired. No one bought it, and the credibility McCain had so thoroughly won in 2000 started to disappear.
I'm not sure how much these gaffs and slip-ups matter in the long run. Voters come in two varieties, those who study politics obsessively and analyse every mistake and sound-bite, and those who vote based on issues and aren't really interested in the finer details. The second group seems to be the more numerous of the two.

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fadawah (edited 10-27-2008 @ 08:02 PM).]

Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 10-28-08 05:20 AM CT (US)     83 / 142       
Sorry I don't have time to make a more thoughtful post, I'll come back later and do that, but how do you think this will affect the reputation of Sarah Palin?
Well, to be fair, she has distanced herself from him to some degree during her tenure as governor, but yeah, I can't imagine that it will help.
Cyrus_
Banned
posted 11-02-08 08:21 PM CT (US)     84 / 142       
Looks like Obama's gonna win this election. Electoral Vote simulator, that lets you put in scenarios for the Presidential election. Obama needs to pull only one of the swing states and Pennsylvania to win the election while McCain needs pretty much every swing state plus some of the Bush states where he's not doing very well in the polls
From FiveThirtyEight.com: ... there are some states that truly do appear to be "must-wins" for McCain. In each and every one of the 624 victory scenarios that the simulation found for him this afternoon, McCain won Florida, Georgia, Missouri, Indiana and Montana. He also picked up Ohio in 621 out of the 624 simulations, and North Carolina in 622 out of 624. If McCain drops any of those states, it's pretty much over.

...

We can probably assume, however, that IF the national polls tighten significantly (and to reiterate, the likelihood is that they will NOT), McCain will edge out a victory in North Carolina, Florida, Indiana, North Dakota, Montana, Georgia, and Missouri; put those states in the McCain column for the time being. Likewise, New Mexico, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa all appear safe for Obama, even in the case of significant tightening. Put those in the Obama column.

That leaves our five states in play. The victory conditions for Obama involving these five states proceed something as follows:

1. Win Pennsylvania and ANY ONE of Colorado, Virginia, Ohio, or Nevada*
2. Win Ohio and EITHER Colorado OR Virginia.
3. Win Colorado AND Virginia AND Nevada.

(* Nevada produces a 269-269 tie, which would probably be resolved for Obama in the House of Represenatives.)

Now, suppose you think that Colorado is already in the bag for Obama because of his large edge in early voting there. We can then simplify the victory conditions as follows:

1. Win Pennsylvania
2. Win Ohio
3. Win Virginia AND Nevada

That's basically what it comes down to, although I'm sure each campaign would claim that there are a larger number of states in play.
Electoral Vote.com (Electoral Vote predictions), Electoral Vote.com 2004 results, FiveThirtyEight.com (Electoral Vote predictions (more detail and win percentages, etc)).

[This message has been edited by Cyrus_ (edited 11-02-2008 @ 08:25 PM).]

Julius999
Imposter
posted 11-03-08 01:03 PM CT (US)     85 / 142       
What sort of system is it where living in Alabama makes your vote worthless?

1010011010
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Luke Gevaerts
Squire
posted 11-03-08 01:31 PM CT (US)     86 / 142       
From where I stand, these elections are ridiculously simple: no sane person would place a hockey mom within two seconds of the button that hails the end of the world as we know it. And given that McCain is likely to die before his term is up (I mean, just look at the man; I've seen corpses that looked more alive than he does), this beforementioned Doomsday scenario is probable enough that it should scare everyone with half a brain into voting for whatever random Democrat that runs against him - regardless of who that Democrat is, or what his or her plans are for the country. Fear usually isn't the best advisor, but in this case I think it's justified.

I know I forgot to add the Libertarians to the equasion, but it seems to me that nobody takes them seriously anyway.

Luke Gevaerts » Website · YouTube · Backloggery

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that.
I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." - Frank Zappa

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KayanZ
Squire
(id: ZayanK)
posted 11-03-08 01:44 PM CT (US)     87 / 142       
Everyone should abstain.
Scud
Primus inter pares
posted 11-03-08 02:01 PM CT (US)     88 / 142       
What sort of system is it where living in Alabama makes your vote worthless?
The same we have in the UK pretty much.

¬_¬ Scuddles: Rhymes with huggles© ¬_¬
"Scud: the man who could even make God feel foolish." - A Banned User
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Julius999
Imposter
posted 11-03-08 02:35 PM CT (US)     89 / 142       
They take it to a new level though. In a UK election constituencies have maybe 30,000 voters, while the Electoral College is decided by states (most of which have several million voters). And most of the states return the same result time after time, so that only the voters in a handful of key swing states are even worth considering.

But then, you know all this.

1010011010
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morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-03-08 02:38 PM CT (US)     90 / 142       
Ah, sheesh. Saying McCain is old is okay from a funny point of view, but he isn't going anywhere in the near future. He's still kicking.

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
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Scud
Primus inter pares
posted 11-03-08 02:46 PM CT (US)     91 / 142       
But then, you know all this.
Route B, political ideologies, so my knowledge isn't as indepth as yours.

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Luke Gevaerts
Squire
posted 11-03-08 06:33 PM CT (US)     92 / 142       
Saying McCain is old is okay from a funny point of view, but he isn't going anywhere in the near future. He's still kicking.
In the highly unlikely event that he's elected, he better swear on his mother's grave that he's going to survive those four years.

Luke Gevaerts » Website · YouTube · Backloggery

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that.
I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." - Frank Zappa

OD · AoKH
Cobra the Mediocre
Squire
(id: The_Cobra_81)
posted 11-03-08 07:05 PM CT (US)     93 / 142       
I know I forgot to add the Libertarians to the equasion, but it seems to me that nobody takes them seriously anyway.
I figure a true Libertarian is out of (serious) options. Republicans are just as terrible anymore with spending as their Democrat counterparts are.
And most of the states return the same result time after time, so that only the voters in a handful of key swing states are even worth considering.
I never understood why we just don't pile all the votes through all the country into a huge pot, count them all, and then whoever has the most wins. That's generally what "vote" means, after all.

Cobra the Mediocre
SteadilY working up to Average
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 11-03-08 11:10 PM CT (US)     94 / 142       
In the highly unlikely event that he's elected, he better swear on his mother's grave that he's going to survive those four years.
Shadowflare
Squire
posted 11-04-08 08:15 AM CT (US)     95 / 142       
“I'll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here:

'I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.'
'I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.'
'Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!'”

-Bill Hicks

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Rationalization is a tranquilizer. Quit the dose and awaken.
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morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-04-08 09:46 AM CT (US)     96 / 142       
I wonder how many votes Obamas grandmas death will bring in?

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
Signature currently under construction. If you want to help out and provide me with the resources needed, download from the above links.
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 11-04-08 12:42 PM CT (US)     97 / 142       
The election was decided last night actually. The Washington redskins lost to the Steelers. Every four years, the game before the election for Washington has determined the presidency and never been wrong. Washington win = republican president. Washington loss= democrat. So Obama is as good as sworn in.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-04-08 12:43 PM CT (US)     98 / 142       

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
Signature currently under construction. If you want to help out and provide me with the resources needed, download from the above links.
nav
Squire
(id: nav_2004)
posted 11-04-08 06:26 PM CT (US)     99 / 142       
Actually, matty, that isn't quite true anymore. It was true for quite a long stretch until 2004, when the Redskins lost the Sunday before the election, but Bush was reelected. Also, I'm pretty sure that it was win=incumbent party stays, loss=incumbent party out.

All I know is that, regardless of the outcome, I am very thankful this election is almost over.



(This space intentionally left blank.)

[This message has been edited by nav (edited 11-04-2008 @ 06:27 PM).]

Luke Gevaerts
Squire
posted 11-04-08 11:02 PM CT (US)     100 / 142       
USA, Obama. Obama, USA. Have fun, guys.

Luke Gevaerts » Website · YouTube · Backloggery

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that.
I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." - Frank Zappa

OD · AoKH
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