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Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 11-24-08 10:24 AM CT (US)         
Discuss about words. Do a lot of puns. DO THEM. NOW.

On the General Awesomeness of Language

When there are lots of dudes and chicks and their children and they all speak different languages as their mother tongues, the adults start a 'pidgin' language. It's a language where you've got an utterance for 'me want buy this' but you can't really discuss Kant's categorical imperative. The children, on the other hand, make up their own language from the components of their parents' languages and it's coherent and has grammar and all! This is called a 'creole' language.
There are some creole languages in the Caribbean that emerged after white dudes from Europe colonised the area and took dudes and chicks from different places and put them together! These are the best known creole languages (I think?) since they were born relatively recently.
Some linguists (Noam Chomsky for one) argue that this implies that a human seeks language and that there is a kind of an instinct for language in humans! Pretty outrageous, Noam C!

Children learn language insanely quickly and effectively! A child at the age of 18 months knows about 20 words, but by 21 months the vocabulary grows ten times bigger! Pretty awesome, kids!

Some studies indicate that the only thing a child needs to acquire their mother tongue is to hear the language spoken normally, although so-called baby talk is important for a small child's language acquisition. Correcting a child who uses (by adult standards) poor grammar has actually no effect: the child will learn the grammar rules even if you try to hide them from them!
There are many theories about language acquisition and it's difficulties, and some dudes think children need to be corrected when they use language incorrectly. No language has ever stayed the same, though, so those dudes are pretty much on the losing side!

English, for example, consists of: Anglo-Frisian and Lower Saxon dialects from the 4th-5th centuries, with influence from local Celtic languages (cymraeg, welsh, for one) and later from the infamous French! (William the Conqueror and the 1066 incident) And then some British dudes started getting all over the place (the world) and now English has words from every other language in the whole bloody world! This makes English one of the richest languages in the world, depending on your opinion of what a 'rich' language is. (Some dudes think Finnish is the richest language, but they're all Finns so who cares.)

Language is pretty awesome, everyone!


On Naughty Words

Note to mods (disclaimer): this isn't necessarily about this forum's policy. (Maybe.)

Lots of medias have a censorship policy on swear words. What are the criteria for a word that must be censored? Usually they're described as 'offensive' words, but how to define what is 'generally' offensive or whatever?

The f-word is pretty much always censored where a censoring policy exists, but what baffles me is here in AOKH how 'shit' isn't. Then again, I might want to talk about shitake mushrooms (actually it should be romanised as shiitake?), but what are your experiences on this? What do you think of censoring words? What if there's a word that happens to have F, U, C & K (respectively) in the middle? (I don't know of any.) Why can you say 'bastard' for an illegitimate child (or a generally unpleasant dude) but not the W-word for a prostitute (or a skanky woman)? If I claim I'm not a racist, can I say 'nigger'? I'm certainly allowed to do so if I'm black myself. What about 'gay' or 'faggot'? Those can be offensive to some?

Present your views.

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)

[This message has been edited by Other White Meat (edited 12-06-2008 @ 09:27 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-24-08 11:17 AM CT (US)     1 / 56       
Those words are just an excuse for being dirty, dirty prunes.

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
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Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 11-24-08 11:43 AM CT (US)     2 / 56       
It's all about the way you say those words to someone.
Recently here in the Netherlands there was a case about a policeman who'd been called "gay". The court ruled that one can be called so as long as the one called does not find it offensive.

But then again, that´s the screwed up Dutch system...
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-24-08 01:12 PM CT (US)     3 / 56       
Yeah, you dutch have the wonderful invention of coffee shops, so I wouldn't trust your laws too much?

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
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viperiv
Squire
(id: EpIc CoMmandeR)
posted 11-24-08 01:24 PM CT (US)     4 / 56       
I don't see whay **** or **** is a swear also why is **** a swear? I mean it's a load of ****ing bull****.
Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 11-24-08 01:25 PM CT (US)     5 / 56       
Yeah, the shops can sell drugs, but they aren't allowed to buy it.
Still, I don't think there are as much drug-users here as there are in other countries. Just 'cause we can buy it doesn't mean we buy it.
Gwame
Squire
posted 11-24-08 01:38 PM CT (US)     6 / 56       
I think curse words start off as regular words that were used most frequently by peasants, thus the rich deemed them to be rude and unbecoming. So in essence, it's all just one big misunderstanding.

MY NAME IS GWAME I AM AOKH MEMBER SINCE 2004 AND I HAVE MANY POSTS
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morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-24-08 01:55 PM CT (US)     7 / 56       
You know, an interesting thing about swear words I have to say. "kurat" is an estonian swear word, standing for devil and such. It is very possible that it came from the german "kuh-rad", standing for cow-wheel, or cursing a wheel (of a carriage, perhaps). So maybe old dumb estonian peasants thought it meant a swear when they saw important germans curse their wheels with it.

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
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Julius999
Imposter
posted 11-24-08 02:10 PM CT (US)     8 / 56       
Interesting discussion.

I don't think there is anything wrong with words per se, and that the feeling behind them is the problem if anything. I would be more worried from a social point of view if it became acceptable to voice the sentiment of 'nigger' rather than the actual word. Most "naughty words" are woefully over-used which makes them lose their power anyway.

But most of these words are quite unpalatable, and probably not things you want little children enquiring about. So I support censoring them in the mainstream media, I certainly don't see how it does any harm. The meaning remains clear if they're blanked out (perhaps clearer - most are now completely divorced from their actual definitions?), and in my opinion this is the important thing.

1010011010
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[This message has been edited by Julius999 (edited 11-24-2008 @ 02:11 PM).]

Blunt Axe
Squire
posted 11-24-08 02:13 PM CT (US)     9 / 56       
Intercourse, a good and woody word! Intercourse.....body, body...woh ho ho! Erogenous zone! Concubine! Loose woman!

Ack!

[This message has been edited by Blunt Axe (edited 11-24-2008 @ 02:17 PM).]

morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-24-08 02:27 PM CT (US)     10 / 56       
I don't think there is anything wrong with words per se
Hihihi my finnish comrades understand what's funny with "there's nothing wrong with per se" hihihi

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
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Fattybryce
Squire
posted 11-24-08 02:47 PM CT (US)     11 / 56       
I never really did understand how people can be so offended by a silly little word. Comon people, it's just a word. Though censorship is pretty useless if you ask me. It's not like we don't know what they're saying when we here f*beep*k, it's just that they replaced 'uc' with a very annoying beep.
Though it's not just words, some censorship is just plain stupid. For example, the southpark episode where they're bashing the virgin marry and the whole religion that goes with it, it was banned in USA(might have been australia?, somewhere in the western world.) as it was deemed offensive. YET, you have all the southpark episodes that bash other religions, canandians, hitler ect... What kind of hippocritical censorship is that!. I'm so glad they should that episode here, god it was funny.

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coming soon
Hailstorm65
Squire
posted 11-24-08 02:52 PM CT (US)     12 / 56       
Somebody might be listening at a door and hear a girl saying "Oh! ohohohoh!!!.... ohhhhhhh oh YES" and they would think" That chicks getting laid" but in reality she could have simply unlocked rank 65 on Call of Duty 5 which would give her the flamethrower!

All a big confusion

Senior Member

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Cobra the Mediocre
Squire
(id: The_Cobra_81)
posted 11-24-08 05:49 PM CT (US)     13 / 56       
There are some people that aren't into all the words. There are some that would have you not use certain words. There are 400,000 words in the English language and there are 7 of them you can't say on television. What a ratio that is, 399,993:7. They must really be bad. (...) No bad words. Bad thoughts, bad intentions, and words. You know the 7, don't you, that you can't say on television? ****, ****, ****, ****, **********, ************, and ****. Those are the heavy seven. Those are the ones that'll infect your soul, curve your spine, and keep the country from winning the war.
Yes, not all of those are censored, but I wanted consistency.

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four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 11-24-08 07:08 PM CT (US)     14 / 56       
Intercourse, a good and woody word! Intercourse.....body, body...woh ho ho! Erogenous zone! Concubine! Loose woman!
I don't know, those words sound a bit tinny to me!
Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 11-24-08 07:27 PM CT (US)     15 / 56       
Hey, great discussion!

There are four words censored by the forum: Cu--, fu--, who--, and the variation of a chicken using a straw. As far as I know, these are global; not just on AoKH, but throughout the whole of HG. It could be for various reasons: advertisers, the forum's target audience (teens), the use of said words in insults or flames, or good taste. Those are the words that are grabbed up by the filter.

I have no problem with the prostitute variation of who--, to be honest, or with swearing in general, although I'm personally against excessive swearing in a forum setting (it's the equivilent of using the word "like" all of the time ).

I view the removal of the swearing blacklist as the gradual loosening and liberalizing of our social norms. Back in the day, sex was given a stern glare by the FCC, with possible fines; now sex is sure to be found on any teen or adult television show. Any bit of swearing on television was viewed as offensive; now it's viewed as fairly common, with words like "bitch" being used consistently. We're closer and closer to showing parts of a woman's body on television without everybody going absolutely insane, Janet Jackson-style. Creators of PG-13 and R-rated movies are bypassing the movie rating system with their DVDs, simply because "Unrated" sells more.

It's the internet and technology age, and these things are becoming less and less offensive, becoming normal; some would call it desensitization, and I personally think it's a very positive change. Just think: HG used to censor the word "shit" and the moderation was a lot stricter than it is today. We've been influenced too.

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» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Daddy
Squire
(id: RIPMKIV9398 1987)
posted 11-24-08 09:25 PM CT (US)     16 / 56       
Good shit Aro.

M U S I C !
Blunt Axe
Squire
posted 11-24-08 11:51 PM CT (US)     17 / 56       
Yes Aro, you hit the penis nail on the head!
the forum's target audience (teens)
Or so they say. We're probably all 60 year old men with itchy crotches trying to find a 12 year old "playmate". Which, of course, drags my infamous thread to a new level of sick.

Ack!
Daddy
Squire
(id: RIPMKIV9398 1987)
posted 11-25-08 00:20 AM CT (US)     18 / 56       
We're probably all 60 year old men with itchy crotches trying to find a 12 year old "playmate".
Speak for yourself

M U S I C !

[This message has been edited by Daddy (edited 11-25-2008 @ 00:23 AM).]

four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 11-25-08 03:28 AM CT (US)     19 / 56       
Lots of medias have a censorship policy on swear words. What are the criteria for a word that must be censored? Usually they're described as 'offensive' words, but how to define what is 'generally' offensive or whatever?
I don't think there are hard and fast criterias but rather the media uses its judgement on what could be considered offensive. Like on here, the four words censored are all sexual in nature.
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 11-25-08 04:52 AM CT (US)     20 / 56       
I think curse words start off as regular words that were used most frequently by peasants, thus the rich deemed them to be rude and unbecoming. So in essence, it's all just one big misunderstanding.
You can see this with rural culture compared to urban culture. In Finland, for example (I know because I live there?), the people in the country say 'I gotta take a shit' when an urban kid would say 'I need to go to the bathroom'. If you try and pull that out at your teacher in an urban school, good f-luck.
It could be for various reasons: advertisers, the forum's target audience (teens), the use of said words in insults or flames, or good taste. Those are the words that are grabbed up by the filter.
But don't teens know those words anyway? They watch movies and I'm pretty sure some of the games covered at HG include at least some of those words? I don't mind the censoring, personally, there's just always something about censoring anything that makes me feel... controversial.
I don't think there are hard and fast criterias but rather the media uses its judgement on what could be considered offensive. Like on here, the four words censored are all sexual in nature.
Okay, how come sexuality is offensive? Isn't it omnipresent in nature? At least most animals and plants are sexual?
This reminds me of an anecdote about some (male) professors at a university in England: they used to take baths in the river near the university during longer breaks. One day, some student girls were rowing through the river and caught the professors swimming (naked ofcourse); everyone covered their genitalia, except for the math and physics teacher, who covered his face. After the incident he said to the rest: "I don't know about you, but I'm recognised by my face, not my genitalia." What is it about sex that's so friggin' embarrassing? (I have a mysterious need to refer to Diogenes once again?)
HG used to censor the word "shit" and the moderation was a lot stricter than it is today. We've been influenced too.
Do you have any idea why
a) it was censored in the first place
b) it's not censored now?
This baffles me.

I'm glad, though, that the media is getting less crazy, gradually.

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 11-25-08 06:44 AM CT (US)     21 / 56       
Okay, how come sexuality is offensive? Isn't it omnipresent in nature? At least most animals and plants are sexual?
Ah, how do I express the irrational rationally? There's something different about sex, that's all. Think of the conversations you've had about sex. They're different from the ones you've had about football, or video games, aren't they? There's just this strange, uncomfortable atmosphere when the subject is raised.
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 11-25-08 08:07 AM CT (US)     22 / 56       
It because of upbringing. At some point, sex was made a taboo subject (I'd say near the rise of christianity) and it has stayed that way.

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
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Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 11-25-08 03:30 PM CT (US)     23 / 56       
Ah, how do I express the irrational rationally?
Precisely!
Think of the conversations you've had about sex. They're different from the ones you've had about football, or video games, aren't they?
Am I a freak if I answer 'no'? Yes, though depends a lot who I'm talking with. There are some friends that I can talk about it with as well as about football, eating or other phenomena in nature.
It because of upbringing. At some point, sex was made a taboo subject (I'd say near the rise of christianity) and it has stayed that way.
True: a lot of pagans are pretty open about sex (not about gay action, though), and then, well, there's Japan. But Goths, for example (the bearded Germanic badasses, not the young and insecure dudes and chicks in black clothes ) weren't so cool about it, but I think we are to thank the middle-eastern attitude for our long history of taboo-ish sex.

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
Ornlu
Recreational Procreator
posted 11-25-08 03:39 PM CT (US)     24 / 56       
Cu--, fu--, who--
You may not use profanity or bypass the software-based censor.
I suggest castration.

None of us are free, one of us is chained.
Hailstorm65
Squire
posted 11-25-08 04:26 PM CT (US)     25 / 56       
Well it all does depend on the person even though society is so strongly making it a tabooish subject. For example, as I had posted in my other thread about how my teacher (married and with kids) had joined in a discussion some people were having about what somebody would call more then one penis.

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