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Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 11-24-08 10:24 AM CT (US)         
Discuss about words. Do a lot of puns. DO THEM. NOW.

On the General Awesomeness of Language

When there are lots of dudes and chicks and their children and they all speak different languages as their mother tongues, the adults start a 'pidgin' language. It's a language where you've got an utterance for 'me want buy this' but you can't really discuss Kant's categorical imperative. The children, on the other hand, make up their own language from the components of their parents' languages and it's coherent and has grammar and all! This is called a 'creole' language.
There are some creole languages in the Caribbean that emerged after white dudes from Europe colonised the area and took dudes and chicks from different places and put them together! These are the best known creole languages (I think?) since they were born relatively recently.
Some linguists (Noam Chomsky for one) argue that this implies that a human seeks language and that there is a kind of an instinct for language in humans! Pretty outrageous, Noam C!

Children learn language insanely quickly and effectively! A child at the age of 18 months knows about 20 words, but by 21 months the vocabulary grows ten times bigger! Pretty awesome, kids!

Some studies indicate that the only thing a child needs to acquire their mother tongue is to hear the language spoken normally, although so-called baby talk is important for a small child's language acquisition. Correcting a child who uses (by adult standards) poor grammar has actually no effect: the child will learn the grammar rules even if you try to hide them from them!
There are many theories about language acquisition and it's difficulties, and some dudes think children need to be corrected when they use language incorrectly. No language has ever stayed the same, though, so those dudes are pretty much on the losing side!

English, for example, consists of: Anglo-Frisian and Lower Saxon dialects from the 4th-5th centuries, with influence from local Celtic languages (cymraeg, welsh, for one) and later from the infamous French! (William the Conqueror and the 1066 incident) And then some British dudes started getting all over the place (the world) and now English has words from every other language in the whole bloody world! This makes English one of the richest languages in the world, depending on your opinion of what a 'rich' language is. (Some dudes think Finnish is the richest language, but they're all Finns so who cares.)

Language is pretty awesome, everyone!


On Naughty Words

Note to mods (disclaimer): this isn't necessarily about this forum's policy. (Maybe.)

Lots of medias have a censorship policy on swear words. What are the criteria for a word that must be censored? Usually they're described as 'offensive' words, but how to define what is 'generally' offensive or whatever?

The f-word is pretty much always censored where a censoring policy exists, but what baffles me is here in AOKH how 'shit' isn't. Then again, I might want to talk about shitake mushrooms (actually it should be romanised as shiitake?), but what are your experiences on this? What do you think of censoring words? What if there's a word that happens to have F, U, C & K (respectively) in the middle? (I don't know of any.) Why can you say 'bastard' for an illegitimate child (or a generally unpleasant dude) but not the W-word for a prostitute (or a skanky woman)? If I claim I'm not a racist, can I say 'nigger'? I'm certainly allowed to do so if I'm black myself. What about 'gay' or 'faggot'? Those can be offensive to some?

Present your views.

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)

[This message has been edited by Other White Meat (edited 12-06-2008 @ 09:27 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 11-25-08 06:15 PM CT (US)     26 / 56       
Do you have any idea why
a) it was censored in the first place
b) it's not censored now?
This baffles me.
I wasn't here when they decided to censor those words, but that's a very easy question to answer: many people find swearing offensive. Why do you think they censor it in the news or in other medias? Why do they censor words in many multiplayer games? It's deemed by many immature and needless, and many conservative types find swear words gross.

But... as time progresses, people are finding these words less and less offensive due to constant exposure to those words. HeavenGames probably reviewed it one day (I think it happened around the time KoRT was killed and OD was implemented) and decided the swear filter didn't have to be so strict.

So:
a) it was censored because the words were offensive
b) it was uncensored because the words weren't as offensive anymore

How offensive anything could be is up to the ones who control the media.

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Gwame
Squire
posted 11-25-08 08:27 PM CT (US)     27 / 56       
Can I clarify something basically irrelevant to the topic here? "Medias" is not a word, at least not in the context it's used here. "Media" is the plural of "medium", but it's a common mistake.

Sorry for being a grammar nazi.

MY NAME IS GWAME I AM AOKH MEMBER SINCE 2004 AND I HAVE MANY POSTS
BEST SIG OF 2008 AND 2ND BEST SIG OF 2009 (SAME SIG LOLOL)
BEST SIG OF 2008
92% of teenagers have moved on to rap music. If you're on of the 8% that still listens to real music, copy this into your signature.
"^`'*-=~+,._.,+~=-*'`^" "Gwame your sig ain't funny nomore." - morgoth bauglir"^`'*-=~+,._.,+~=-*'`^"
Hailstorm65
Squire
posted 11-25-08 08:28 PM CT (US)     28 / 56       
Heil Webster!

Senior Member

Know god, No fear
No god, Know fear
Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 11-25-08 08:52 PM CT (US)     29 / 56       
Can I clarify something basically irrelevant to the topic here? "Medias" is not a word, at least not in the context it's used here. "Media" is the plural of "medium", but it's a common mistake.
Fine, fine. "or in other media"

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Solivago
Squire
posted 11-26-08 00:04 AM CT (US)     30 / 56       
but what baffles me is here in AOKH how 'shit' isn't
LOL, reminds of the South Park episode where they say it over and over and over...until the fearsome Order of Standards of Practices come along...and the dragon...

I'm gonna be a consequentialist, and say that as long as there is no offended people you haven't cursed wrong. That's my opinion.

If were to find "f**k+[some letters]" for an actual word, I'd be saying it all the time. I bet Germanic languages have it...not sure of English....

I'm also think words are very very arbitrary. Imagine in 2000 years, "potato" will mean a very blunt "go to hell"...much like "dude" in Swahili means elephant's ummmm...posterior follicules.

{___ ک OLIVAGO ___╣}

He's a real nowhere Man / Sitting in hisNowhere Land / Making all his nowhere plans
...for nobody -Beatles Song

{╠___{ AoKH Main | My Blog | Code of Conduct }___╣}
---
four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 11-26-08 00:39 AM CT (US)     31 / 56       
If were to find "f**k+[some letters]" for an actual word, I'd be saying it all the time. I bet Germanic languages have it...not sure of English....
So would I. Have you ever played Balderdash, and had to read out a foreign-language word that sound exactly like swearing? That happened to me, I got a word that was phonetically "yousafukked". An awkward moment, to say the least.
Solivago
Squire
posted 11-26-08 01:05 AM CT (US)     32 / 56       
I've never heard of the game Balderdash, but it sounds exciting.

I'm so bored I'm gonna I would transcribe what you said in IPA. I just thought it'd be breaking the rules, even though it's "International". Oh curse my intense interest in linguistics....

{___ ک OLIVAGO ___╣}

He's a real nowhere Man / Sitting in hisNowhere Land / Making all his nowhere plans
...for nobody -Beatles Song

{╠___{ AoKH Main | My Blog | Code of Conduct }___╣}
---
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 11-26-08 01:43 AM CT (US)     33 / 56       
Can I clarify something basically irrelevant to the topic here? "Medias" is not a word, at least not in the context it's used here. "Media" is the plural of "medium", but it's a common mistake.
Wow! This is awesome! I had a feeling they might be connected but did not dare to find out lest my nightmares come true! That's Latin for you!
I would transcribe what you said in IPA. I just thought it'd be breaking the rules, even though it's "International". Oh curse my intense interest in linguistics....
No, do. Or I will. Also, from now on whenever I want to say the f-word I'm just going to say fac (abbreviated from faculté en francais); the pronunciation is identic in French (IPA rules, by the way. I have a dream... that one day we'll replace all our silly alphabets with IPA and learning languages will be super easy and Chinese won't be bragging with their super hard alphabet. Smug bastards.

Shouldn't asshole/arsehole be censored? I believe there's no apellation that exceeds this in offensiveness, at least without being combined with something?
f**k+[some letters]
F***face?

EDIT:
"Medias" is not a word, at least not in the context it's used here.
Sure it is. If I can use it in common speech and it's reasonable to expect everyone understands me, it's a word. Maybe not a 'real' word. Language evolves just like this! Someone starts mispronouncing or people generally care less about 'correctness' and voilà, you've got French out of Latin and all that. INSANE

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)

[This message has been edited by Other White Meat (edited 11-26-2008 @ 01:49 AM).]

Gwame
Squire
posted 11-26-08 09:22 AM CT (US)     34 / 56       
Sure it is. If I can use it in common speech and it's reasonable to expect everyone understands me, it's a word. Maybe not a 'real' word. Language evolves just like this! Someone starts mispronouncing or people generally care less about 'correctness' and voilà, you've got French out of Latin and all that. INSANE
So basically, every assembly of letters you can imagine, they're all words, provided someone understands something from it? Pfft...
I would transcribe what you said in IPA. I just thought it'd be breaking the rules, even though it's "International". Oh curse my intense interest in linguistics....
Then what about Pig Latin?

MY NAME IS GWAME I AM AOKH MEMBER SINCE 2004 AND I HAVE MANY POSTS
BEST SIG OF 2008 AND 2ND BEST SIG OF 2009 (SAME SIG LOLOL)
BEST SIG OF 2008
92% of teenagers have moved on to rap music. If you're on of the 8% that still listens to real music, copy this into your signature.
"^`'*-=~+,._.,+~=-*'`^" "Gwame your sig ain't funny nomore." - morgoth bauglir"^`'*-=~+,._.,+~=-*'`^"
Solivago
Squire
posted 11-26-08 11:06 AM CT (US)     35 / 56       
So basically, every assembly of letters you can imagine, they're all words, provided someone understands something from it? Pfft...
"Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by itslef but the wrod as a wlohe."

"yousafukked", this is my guess, so it's prolly gonna be inaccurate.

[jʊsəfʌkt] or maybe [jusəfʌkt]

The horseshoe symbol represents a vowel, like what you would say in "wood" or "woman" or "book". "u" is for "toucan" or "boots".

f*** is pronounced [fʌk].

{___ ک OLIVAGO ___╣}

He's a real nowhere Man / Sitting in hisNowhere Land / Making all his nowhere plans
...for nobody -Beatles Song

{╠___{ AoKH Main | My Blog | Code of Conduct }___╣}
---
four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 11-26-08 10:32 PM CT (US)     36 / 56       
Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 11-27-08 00:37 AM CT (US)     37 / 56       
Shouldn't asshole/arsehole be censored? I believe there's no apellation that exceeds this in offensiveness, at least without being combined with something?
Maybe it's not deemed *as* offensive. Remember, the short censor list is... short.
So basically, every assembly of letters you can imagine, they're all words, provided someone understands something from it? Pfft...
I believe that's how the concept of "language" originated.

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 11-27-08 02:41 AM CT (US)     38 / 56       
So basically, every assembly of letters you can imagine, they're all words, provided someone understands something from it? Pfft...
Kind of. Language isn't really about letters but speech sounds. Here, 'medias' wasn't the wrong spelling, but incorrectly structured. 'Media' has become such a regular word that it's easily malleable. It's getting nicknames. It has started disconnecting itself with its past self. It has abandoned booze and wants to start a new life. It swears it will stay on the right track. Ok I think I've anthropomorphised things again.

Anyway, here's an example: in the 18th century, when you said your house was being painted, you said 'My house is painting.' Then some dudes began saying 'My house is being painted' and it was mega outrageous. All the stuck-in-a-rut geezers were all 'no way you ain't sayin that cause that's super wrong, that ain't even logical or nothin' but dudes just kept saying their houses are being painted. And then all the geezers died and nowadays nobody would even consider saying 'my house is painting' unless they're high, in which case that sentence makes a lot of sense. Anyway, some day you will be dead and everybody's going to say 'medias' and nobody will even remember it's supposedly wrong. This doesn't make it necessarily evil and slovenly.
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by itslef but the wrod as a wlohe.
Noes.

I didn't mean to turn this into The AOKH Language Thread so everyone stop discussing about origins of words and all that! (This way I get the last word)

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
Ilmarinen
Squire
(id: Cilibinarii)
posted 11-28-08 03:46 AM CT (US)     39 / 56       
Hmmm, interesting? - more weird discussion I hate censored words, although I can understand that f*** and 2-5 others are censored. Ever played RuneScape? Dont start it, everytime you say something, one word is censored, or two. Or parts of words are censored. Talking Dutch (my native language, I came from holland to israel) is almost impossible :|

Cilibinarii
My AOK Maps
Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 11-28-08 05:03 AM CT (US)     40 / 56       
I didn't mean to turn this into The AOKH Language Thread so everyone stop discussing about origins of words and all that! (This way I get the last word)
Steer it on course then. After my replies, there doesn't seem to be much else to discuss.

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Lord Fenris
Banned
posted 11-28-08 10:56 AM CT (US)     41 / 56       
OR get Aro to change the title to The AoKH Language Thread.
Ultima_Shadow_K9
Squire
posted 11-29-08 00:14 AM CT (US)     42 / 56       
To my knowledge, im not sure when, but I believe that France invaded some Germanic Tribes. After that, they started controlling them.. the basic breakdown of "curse words" is that the Germanic Tribes still spoke in their language.. so if a man from the Germanic Tribe stepped in poo, he would say the word in his language for it, "shit", the French looked down on this. So, to not look like Germanic Tribe Barbarians, and be looked down on by people "above" them, they stopped using their language, because if you did say things in their language, then you were brutish, bad, and the such.. so people found it rude to say things in that language..

~Living in Heaven Scince 2006~
No longer a stupid Freshmen - Now a foolish Sophmore
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 12-01-08 02:38 AM CT (US)     43 / 56       
IN FACT, I sincerely think this should be the Language Thread.

Ultima_Shadow: is that true?! That's super cool, though when I step on poop I don't exclaim 'Excrete!' so I don't get those germanic dudes.

QUESTION: in normal speech (when you're in a relatively relaxed situation with your friends, for example), do you cuss a lot? I notice that there are phases when I use dirtier language for some reason. I can't explain it. I'd say that "normally" I don't swear except when highly excited (usually in situations not sexual in nature) but then it's usually funny swear words or the less offensive ones anyway. When I'm pissed I'm usually too pissed to say anything except that I'm pissed.

I notice that in situations that I use words such as 'like', 'er', 'uh' and 'umm' a lot of male humans use swear words and it's a bit funny, like

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)

[This message has been edited by Other White Meat (edited 12-01-2008 @ 03:30 AM).]

Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 12-02-08 01:12 AM CT (US)     44 / 56       
I swear all of the time when speaking with friends in a relaxing environment. Really, I like to think of swear words as "sentence enhancers". You put them in your sentence and make a spicy sentence sandwich! You know... fancy talk!
I notice that in situations that I use words such as 'like', 'er', 'uh' and 'umm' a lot of male humans use swear words and it's a bit funny, like
It's a way of bridging the gap between sentences I assume. I know somebody who doesn't use any "bridging" like that, just pauses... it's weird to imagine a human being actually refraining from vocalizing until they know what they're going to say.

Similar to bridging, when I'm tired or "not in a secure mental state", I always speak fast and end sentences with "eh?", "there", and a few other one-syllable words (perhaps "damn").

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Survivor Fo
Banned
posted 12-02-08 01:29 AM CT (US)     45 / 56       
Remember the monkeys though:
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 12-02-08 06:30 AM CT (US)     46 / 56       
Similar to bridging, when I'm tired or "not in a secure mental state", I always speak fast and end sentences with "eh?", "there", and a few other one-syllable words (perhaps "damn").
I notice I feel a need to wrap up stuff I say, usually with a confirming question. (E.g. 'isn't it?', 'doesn't it?' and so on.)

Aphasias are super interesting. In Broca's aphasia, you have a hard time constructing sentences because you lack grammar words, for some reason! The... uh... speech... er... the... speech... er... speech... er... like... the... that. Even if you're missing a grammar word you'll remember it when it's not in a grammatical context (a homonym of a grammar word or the same word having a different meaning)!
In Wernicke's aphasia you speak grammatically but you use sincerely hilarious words for things and you don't even know it! You just feel depressed and annoyed because everyone's all 'You're so wacky!' People with Wernicke's aphasia are all 'I would they dug my cinema. Dog has wug doesn't sound.' CRAZY, dudes!

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
Ornlu
Recreational Procreator
posted 12-02-08 06:56 AM CT (US)     47 / 56       
I notice I feel a need to wrap up stuff I say, usually with a confirming question. (E.g. 'isn't it?', 'doesn't it?' and so on.)
I believe this is more common when typing on the Internet, since we cannot wrap the sentence up with tone or expression as we can in real life. Our generation is not built (genetically or socially, your call) for forum communication.

None of us are free, one of us is chained.
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 12-02-08 07:40 AM CT (US)     48 / 56       
I believe this is more common when typing on the Internet, since we cannot wrap the sentence up with tone or expression as we can in real life. Our generation is not built (genetically or socially, your call) for forum communication.
That's a good point. Though I meant that in normal speech I do that, too. Not as much as in writing, though. Also: when writing I get to think more about things I say so everythings a tad bit more coherent, thus adding more structures such as confirming questions.

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 12-03-08 02:07 AM CT (US)     49 / 56       
People with Wernicke's aphasia are all 'I would they dug my cinema. Dog has wug doesn't sound.' CRAZY, dudes!
What does "I would they dug my cinema. Dog has wug doesn't sound." mean?
I believe this is more common when typing on the Internet, since we cannot wrap the sentence up with tone or expression as we can in real life. Our generation is not built (genetically or socially, your call) for forum communication.
Hey, we're making up for it. Emoticons, formatting, punctuation, increased swearing, and CAPITALS. All essential for any online argument.

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Stephen Richards
Squire
posted 12-03-08 04:39 AM CT (US)     50 / 56       
There are four words censored by the forum: Cu--, fu--, who--, and the variation of a chicken using a straw.
I can understand the first two, but I find the third somewhat mystifying as you'd find it any decent dictionary, and, forgive my naivete, but I don't understand the fourth! EDIT: ok the dictionary point may be irrelevant as the first two are in dictionaries too.

[This message has been edited by Stephen Richards (edited 12-03-2008 @ 04:40 AM).]

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