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Topic Subject:Literary Discussions thread
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sly_guy
Squire
posted 11-26-08 01:45 AM CT (US)         
In this thread, you can post about book that you've read, want to read, or ask other people for suggestions/make suggestions. Heck, you can discuss anything you want, as long as it's related to literature.

So, let's get started. I've been struggling to get through Michael Crichton's Next for nearly a month now; I just can't seem to get into the plotline. Not to say that I don't enjoy his style of writing (I've enjoyed many of his earlier novels), there's just something about it that keeps me from immersing myself into it.

How bout'chu guys?

- ک

Ladies and Gentlemen, wear sunscreen. If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be IT. The long term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience.

This message has been brought to you by procrastination and the letters K and V.

[This message has been edited by sly guy (edited 11-26-2008 @ 01:47 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 12-01-08 04:41 AM CT (US)     26 / 49       
I've been struggling with Gary Jennings Aztec for a few months now
What's it like? Is it accurate or anything? Any UFO implications? The only thing (by far) that I've read on Aztecs has been by Erich Von Däniken, and not very entertaining in a traditional, fiction-related sense.

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
KayanZ
Squire
(id: ZayanK)
posted 12-02-08 12:15 PM CT (US)     27 / 49       
It's really good and accurate. As a matter of fact, one of the reasons for having spent so much time trying to get through it is because of how detailed is every aspect of aztec culture. Highly recommended.
sly_guy
Squire
posted 12-03-08 00:46 AM CT (US)     28 / 49       
Hmmm... that wouldn't happen to have been made into a film, eh? I just saw my brother trash a film with the same title.
Could well be, but I don't know. (I don't usually pay too much attention to movies.) Also, I've given up trying to finish Next, since I haven't opened it in well over a week, and I can hardly remember where I was.
Conn Iggulden's trilogy on Genghis Khan
I'll have to give that a read sometime.

As well, I've decided to read more Shakespeare. So far I've read A Midsummer Night's Dream, Romeo and Juliet (twice), King Lear and MacBeth (I've seen movie adaptations of all four, but they weren't all that great). Of the four, I'd have to say Macbeth is my favourite. (Although MSND was pretty hilarious; Puck defined the story.) I plan on starting with Taming of the Shrew, since I've seen it performed. I'd also recommend seeing any of Shakespeare's plays performed if you have the opportunity; I really enjoyed seeing Taming of the Shrew.
Toilet Reading.
For those "long John" visits. (c)2008
I give you.... the Bathroom Readers!

- ک

Ladies and Gentlemen, wear sunscreen. If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be IT. The long term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience.

This message has been brought to you by procrastination and the letters K and V.

[This message has been edited by sly guy (edited 12-03-2008 @ 00:57 AM).]

Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 12-03-08 01:12 AM CT (US)     29 / 49       
KINDA-SORTA-SPOILER FOR TWO ORWELL BOOKS, SCROLL AWAY NOW


Am I the only one who thought the end of 1984 was depressingly, soul-crushingly sad?

Damn Orwell... made Animal Farm's ending all fun and ironic, but had to end his masterpiece on a minor note.

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 12-03-08 05:21 AM CT (US)     30 / 49       
The story would not have worked without it, though. When your story is about a society that crushes individual identities it would be strange for the protagonist to survive with his individuality in tact. Or at least, it could work, but it wouldn't be a 'warning' novel but more like standard entertainment, which Orwell didn't want to do. I think the film Brazil, also deeply dystopic, does it quite well, though. I won't spoil the ending but it can be interpreted as both a happy and sad ending.

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
UnnamedPlayer
Squire
posted 12-03-08 05:27 AM CT (US)     31 / 49       
heh... I abandoned Next midway.. don't even remember why. was a while back

i am looking for a copy of The Witcher book because the PC game is awesome.
Tanks_fst
Squire
posted 12-03-08 07:21 AM CT (US)     32 / 49       
I have a tendancy to read lots of Terry Pratchet. But right now I keep reading, and re-reading the Eragorn series. Can't wait till I get Brisngr (Spelling?). The latest book released in the Eragorn Series.
Mapppp
Squire
(id: Jimmy2)
posted 12-03-08 04:16 PM CT (US)     33 / 49       
Damn Orwell... made Animal Farm's ending all fun and ironic, but had to end his masterpiece on a minor note.
Animal Farm's ending may have been ironic and very clever, but it was also a minor note. The pigs and humans, while arguing, still run the show. The animals are also possibly more enslaved than before, judging by some of the farmers' comments. It wasn't exactly depressing, but it didn't end on a high note.

Also, just finished Heart of Darkness, and it is a very... layered book. I'm having trouble totally registering it, as whenever I try to look really in-depth at it, I end up drawing a blank. I don't think I've totally unlocked all the meaning in it, although I definitely caught the theme.

The end of it was also brilliant, Kurtz' death was great.
I have a tendancy to read lots of Terry Pratchet. But right now I keep reading, and re-reading the Eragorn series. Can't wait till I get Brisngr (Spelling?). The latest book released in the Eragorn Series.
I read the first book a long time ago. Then, I gradually forgot the plot. I later picked up the second book and realized that I had totally forgotten what had happened in the first.

So, I reread the first, and read the second. Now that the third one's out, I'm not going to bother, as I forgot both the first and second books, and I'm not going to digest 2000+ pages of fantasy again.

◓◓◓◓◓
Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 12-04-08 06:27 AM CT (US)     34 / 49       
Also, just finished Heart of Darkness, and it is a very... layered book. I'm having trouble totally registering it, as whenever I try to look really in-depth at it, I end up drawing a blank. I don't think I've totally unlocked all the meaning in it, although I definitely caught the theme.

The end of it was also brilliant, Kurtz' death was great.
Yeah. I re-read it within a few months and saw many more layers then. It's a book where re-reading really pays off.

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 12-04-08 09:35 AM CT (US)     35 / 49       
Mmkay I was just talking with a friend of mine who said Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is filled with conservative propaganda? Or messages or whatever. Could someone explain me why this is? Because I've read it er 3 times or something and I haven't noticed anything? I'm semi-critical as a reader I guess?

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
sly_guy
Squire
posted 12-04-08 09:47 AM CT (US)     36 / 49       
Also, just finished Heart of Darkness, and it is a very... layered book. I'm having trouble totally registering it, as whenever I try to look really in-depth at it, I end up drawing a blank. I don't think I've totally unlocked all the meaning in it, although I definitely caught the theme.
Now I'm tempted to read it again, or possibly watch Apocalypse Now. It is a wonderful book; you've got to read it slowly and carefully to get everything out of it (and maybe not be forced to read it the first time for a class ).

- ک

Ladies and Gentlemen, wear sunscreen. If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be IT. The long term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience.

This message has been brought to you by procrastination and the letters K and V.
Scud
Primus inter pares
posted 12-04-08 11:29 AM CT (US)     37 / 49       
Mmkay I was just talking with a friend of mine who said Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is filled with conservative propaganda?
Funny, when the book carries a clear socialist message (with Tolkien being a socialist himself), a few critics argue.

The main hero of the book is Samwise, representing the working class. For without him, the whole misson would have been unsuccesful as it was he who made Frodo preserve on the journey to destory the ring - and without his support Frodo would of failed.

¬_¬ Scuddles: Rhymes with huggles© ¬_¬
"Scud: the man who could even make God feel foolish." - A Banned User
"Anyway, Scud's not mean, it's not in his nature...he is a bit eccentric though!" - Anastasia

[This message has been edited by Scud (edited 12-04-2008 @ 12:20 PM).]

Gwame
Squire
posted 12-04-08 12:10 PM CT (US)     38 / 49       
The main hero of the book is Samwise, synodochically representing the working class. For without him, the whole misson would have been unsuccesful as it was he who made Frodo preserve on the journey to destory the ring - and without his support Frodo would of failed.
synodochically
Unnecessary use of a word most have never heard of, and you can't even spell it. [/condescendence]

MY NAME IS GWAME I AM AOKH MEMBER SINCE 2004 AND I HAVE MANY POSTS
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Cobra the Mediocre
Squire
(id: The_Cobra_81)
posted 12-04-08 09:58 PM CT (US)     39 / 49       
Funny, when the book carries a clear socialist message (with Tolkien being a socialist himself), a few critics argue.
Not to mention the strong anti-industrialist message. Remember that everyone evil is greedy and works in factories to destroy trees and stuff, just to make Captain Planet sad.

But you could also argue that all the main characters are white guys fighting against evil Arabs. It's also no big secret the Dwarves were supposed to be pastiches of Jews, so... I'll let you take it from there.

Captaaaain... Planettt... Captain Planet!

Cobra the Mediocre
SteadilY working up to Average
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
(Age of Kings Heaven) (The Renegades)
Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 12-06-08 01:39 AM CT (US)     40 / 49       
Or at least, it could work, but it wouldn't be a 'warning' novel but more like standard entertainment, which Orwell didn't want to do.
Very true. It seems like a theme expressed is that "a strong love/loyalty/will can be destroyed by exploiting the power of an even stronger fear". Even though I wouldn't call the male/female love expressed in the book strong by any means, but it comes across that the power of fear is psychologically stronger than anything else.
Animal Farm's ending may have been ironic and very clever, but it was also a minor note. .... It wasn't exactly depressing, but it didn't end on a high note.
Apologies, I was being sarcastic. Although it's definitely ending on more of a high note than in 1984.
Funny, when the book carries a clear socialist message (with Tolkien being a socialist himself), a few critics argue.
I was under the impression you could find a slant or hidden message in anything if you look hard enough.
Unnecessary use of a word most have never heard of, and you can't even spell it.
Why, oh why does anybody correct Scud? YOU DON'T CORRECT SCUD ON SPELLING.

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"

[This message has been edited by Aro (edited 12-06-2008 @ 01:40 AM).]

four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 12-06-08 03:14 AM CT (US)     41 / 49       
But you could also argue that all the main characters are white guys fighting against evil Arabs. It's also no big secret the Dwarves were supposed to be pastiches of Jews, so... I'll let you take it from there.
Interesting knowledge. Wasn't Sauron supposed to be Hitler or whatever?
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 12-06-08 03:22 AM CT (US)     42 / 49       
Not at all, in fact, if anyone here would've actually READ LotR they'd also read the authors intro, in which he states that there is NO analogy in the book whatsoever.

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[This message has been edited by morgoth bauglir (edited 12-06-2008 @ 03:22 AM).]

Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 12-06-08 03:41 AM CT (US)     43 / 49       
Not at all, in fact, if anyone here would've actually READ LotR they'd also read the authors intro, in which he states that there is NO analogy in the book whatsoever.
Pfft, yeah, sure, we're supposed to take the word of *the author*, eh? The one who hides this political propaganda deep within the book to brainwash the masses?! WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO FOOL?!?!

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
four hundred babies
Squire
(id: Lord_Fadawah)
posted 12-06-08 04:52 AM CT (US)     44 / 49       
Let's get out our tin foil hats for a second, people. If I was an author trying to sneak subconscious propaganda into my audience's brain, I would never come right out and admit it, would I?
Aro
AoKH Dictator
posted 12-06-08 04:56 AM CT (US)     45 / 49       
If I was an author trying to sneak subconscious propaganda into my audience's brain, I would never come right out and admit it, would I?
Nope! Unless your name was Bill O'Reilly.

I seriously doubt the author of LotR had any hidden agenda (OR DID HE?!!), but political beliefs often have ways of sneaking into your writing. I mean, jeez, look at my previous sentence. See what I mean?!

» Your attractive master.
» "Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
morgoth bauglir
Squire
posted 12-06-08 06:09 AM CT (US)     46 / 49       
I'm not saying that the whole elves and dwarves thing didn't have anythign to do with racism, but there is no connection between WW2 and lotr. None. especially since Tolkien got the story ready BEFORE WW2.

Morgoth Bauglir/Quaazi - BORINGMETAL HEADTWAT
Huidin's Belief - The Siege (4.4) - 2475 - Birth Of The Uruk-Hai (4.1) (Best Sound of 2008)
Signature currently under construction. If you want to help out and provide me with the resources needed, download from the above links.
Evil Tailor
Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 12-06-08 06:33 AM CT (US)     47 / 49       
I'm not saying that the whole elves and dwarves thing didn't have anythign to do with racism, but there is no connection between WW2 and lotr. None. especially since Tolkien got the story ready BEFORE WW2.
Damn right. (Though I think he didn't finish it until after the war?)
But consider all the 'evil' stuffs: it comes from the East. Okay, OUCH for the East especially since the map of Middle Earth that comes with the book has a resemblance to Europe in a way. Also: bad dudes from the South who SEEM TO HAVE ELEPHANTS and are dark-skinned are BAD DUDES. PRETTY RACIST EH.
I believe none of this nonsense and if it's true, oh well.

It's useful to bear in mind that most mythologies are in some way racist and all that, and what LOTR is is essentially a mythology based on mythology so Tolkien didn't just make everything up himself. A lot of stuff in his books and the milieu are more or less directly from traditional European mythologies or whatever.
If I was an author trying to sneak subconscious propaganda into my audience's brain, I would never come right out and admit it, would I?
Man, I'd love to do that. If I was a good enough writer I'd do that just to be that dude!

"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing."
-- Christopher Hitchens
http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
Gwame
Squire
posted 12-06-08 04:52 PM CT (US)     48 / 49       
Why, oh why does anybody correct Scud? YOU DON'T CORRECT SCUD ON SPELLING.
I suppose I'm something of an enigma...

MY NAME IS GWAME I AM AOKH MEMBER SINCE 2004 AND I HAVE MANY POSTS
BEST SIG OF 2008 AND 2ND BEST SIG OF 2009 (SAME SIG LOLOL)
BEST SIG OF 2008
92% of teenagers have moved on to rap music. If you're on of the 8% that still listens to real music, copy this into your signature.
"^`'*-=~+,._.,+~=-*'`^" "Gwame your sig ain't funny nomore." - morgoth bauglir"^`'*-=~+,._.,+~=-*'`^"
Cobra the Mediocre
Squire
(id: The_Cobra_81)
posted 12-06-08 08:01 PM CT (US)     49 / 49       
if anyone here would've actually READ LotR they'd also read the authors intro, in which he states that there is NO analogy in the book whatsoever.
Of course I read that. But Stoker claimed there was little sexuality in his novels, too, and I don't know anyone who thinks he wasn't delusional about that. It's possible for an author to be in denial about his own work.

Cobra the Mediocre
SteadilY working up to Average
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
(Age of Kings Heaven) (The Renegades)
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