Does anyone know if he's for real dead? I've heard everything from in the hospital from heat stroke to heart attack to he's a zombie.
Anyway, you may not like him, but I thought his music was pretty cool when I was growing up, and I just want to anonymously send out my respects to him over teh interwebz because that's how I get my jollies.
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. ~Niels Bohr No matter how hard you try, you cannot outwit stupid people. ~Anonymous Romano British AAR ~Defunct. Kingdom of Albion AAR ~Finished 1/26/08. WRE Migration/Defensive AAR ~Defunct. Numidian Defensive AAR ~Ongoing
Author
Replies:
zyxomma100 Squire
posted 06-26-09 07:11 PM
CT (US)
26 / 54
Eh, she was a model. I do think that her death merits some note, but McMahon and Jackson deserve more attention.
EDIT: Just because someone died doesn't mean that my opinion of them should change. I don't care what music contributions he made, it's irrelevant. If I had posted a Michael Jackson thread 3 days ago, every post would have been a joke about his face or his sexual preferences. Now he's dead, and all of a sudden he's this great artist whose reputation was ruined by the big, bad media.
But he was so nice.
Really though, your comparisons are hardly similar.
zyxomma100- Age of Kings Heaven forumer Proudly thwarting Dark_Aro's evil plans since 2002 "There is nothing more sad than watching a teutonic knight chasing a petard."
Espadachim Squire
posted 06-26-09 07:55 PM
CT (US)
27 / 54
One less pedophile in the world.
Looked like you were happy with his death, matty. Do you really think that is good to desire the other's death?
Mr Wednesday Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 06-26-09 08:10 PM
CT (US)
28 / 54
I never said that. I'm never happy when someone dies, particularly someone who was so messed up. I can feel compassion for them, but to act like they weren't what they were just because they're dead is so...typical, and wrong.
"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
all of a sudden he's this great artist whose reputation was ruined by the big, bad media.
I agree with your thoughts, I really hate this kind of things.
I used to know a MJ community, It raised around 8000 members only yesterday, that was because only yesterday all those people realized that they are a big fan of MJ. Now I really hate all those new fans.
Los Templiero Squire
posted 06-26-09 09:48 PM
CT (US)
31 / 54
Holy crap, while I'm not a fan of him, yesterday I've knew that our relative's love to us often felt after he's passed up.
The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder. But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is (but) transient magic." They reject (the warning) and follow their (own) lusts but every matter has its appointed time. (Al-Qamar: 1-3)
War is a quarrel between two thieves that too coward to fight each other, uses their money to recruit soldiers, give them arms and uniforms, and letting them killing each other like wild animals. - Carlyle
Rocking doom Squire
posted 06-28-09 03:56 AM
CT (US)
32 / 54
He was a good musician, may he rest in peace.
Heaven is only what we aspire to
Everything has a reason
The purpose of life is Karm (Work), Without Work, Our lives are but purposeless- Hindu belief
Evil Tailor Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 06-29-09 05:00 AM
CT (US)
33 / 54
If I had posted a Michael Jackson thread 3 days ago, every post would have been a joke about his face or his sexual preferences.
Nope.
Also I think most people still think he was a weirdo till the end.
"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing." -- Christopher Hitchens http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
There's a scary trend in society to apologize for the actions of musicians and athletes.
I have yet to say something like "what he did was fine". I do not justify his actions; I'm saying that he made great music and he did a lot for the world of music. People recognize this, and that appears to be your issue.
If I had posted a Michael Jackson thread 3 days ago, every post would have been a joke about his face or his sexual preferences.
See, if you followed the Music Thread's discussions in the past, you would realize that we HAVE discussed Michael, *without* mentioning his face or his sexual preferences. Again, I'm a fan of his music; I don't defend his personal life, but I do defend his music and his status as an artist.
He was a messed up dude, but we aren't discussing Hitler here. We're discussing Michael Jackson. You had a poor opinion of him before he died and you still have a poor opinion of him after; why do people have to share those sentiments? Why can't they honor an accomplished singer despite his messy personal life?
» Your attractive master. »"Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Scud Primus inter pares
posted 06-29-09 02:40 PM
CT (US)
36 / 54
You had a poor opinion of him before he died and you still have a poor opinion of him after; why do people have to share those sentiments?
For the same reason people gush out thier love for him; including celebrities who had nothing at all to do with him in any way, yet still pour their heart out over such a great 'musical genius'.
For the same reason people gush out thier love for him; including celebrities who had nothing at all to do with him in any way, yet still pour their heart out over such a great 'musical genius'.
The question is, why can't they? What does his personal life has to do with his music, and vice-versa? If you hate him for what he did in his personal life, sure, whatever, but don't complain when people celebrate him for his music.
» Your attractive master. »"Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
[This message has been edited by Aro (edited 06-29-2009 @ 03:06 PM).]
Mr Wednesday Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 06-29-09 03:47 PM
CT (US)
38 / 54
The question is, why can't they? What does his personal life has to do with his music, and vice-versa?
Well actually, I've no problem with that. OWM took offense at me calling him a pedophile, saying he was aquitted. I get what OWM is saying, just pointing out that I thought he was a terrible human before he died, and I'm not changing that now. The fact you agreed with OWM using the term aquitted brought you into this.
Just as I feel OJ Simpson is a murderer despite a jury saying he isn't, so too I feel MJ was a pedophile despite never being punished by the courts. The fact he has died doesn't change my complete disrespect for him personally. Some of his music, I will give you is very cool.
The best thing I can compare it to is really OJ Simpson. I watch football, I'm from a Buffalo family and OJ is the greatest Buffalo Bill's player ever. Yet nobody talks about him and praises his achievements. He is one of the great runningbacks of all time, but is never included in the discussion. Is that fair? I dunno actually, like MJ, he was found innocent. I do think at some point you can be harmful enough to society to wipe out any positive cultural achievments you've made.
But that's only my opinion, and I equally get others wanting to forget who he was so they can remember his music. Seeing as this is a thread where everyone was posting their reaction to MJ's dying, I posted mine "One less pedophile in the world." Harsh? Probably, but true IMO. So that's my thoughts, and I can respect you and OWM not sharing them, but they are still my thoughts.
"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
Aro AoKH Dictator
posted 06-29-09 04:08 PM
CT (US)
39 / 54
Being a murderer is a big step down from pedophile, and although I understand your sentiments (it *is* wrong, in any playbook), football is also a different cookie from music. OJ didn't even have CLOSE to the influence that MJ had; MJ was internationally huge. So obviously, it being unfair that OJ isn't mentioned in discussions on runningbacks has nothing, at all, to do with this.
Now he's dead, and all of a sudden he's this great artist whose reputation was ruined by the big, bad media.
*That* seems to be your problem, a problem many others share. All of the sudden, people seem to be coming out of nowhere with praise for Jackson, making many folks think, "OMG where were these people a few years ago when he was on trial?!" These people did not come out of nowhere. They have *always* thought highly of his work. Regardless of some trial, regardless of what he did, people STILL ENJOY his music and they appreciate how he contributed to pop. They weren't talking about it a few years ago because the media was ignoring MJ; his death has brought his music and persona back into the spotlight.
» Your attractive master. »"Because I before E is a LIE!!!"
Mr Wednesday Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 06-29-09 04:48 PM
CT (US)
40 / 54
football is also a different cookie from music. OJ didn't even have CLOSE to the influence that MJ had; MJ was internationally huge
for a lot of people (including me) sports is a lot larger of a part of their life than music, so perhaps I would actually see it the other way around. While MJ is obviously more internationally famous, on a personal level, I've less connection to him, so the comparison does still work for me.
I'd also argue that murder is not worse than sexually abusing a child, but that's another conversation entirely.
*That* seems to be your problem, a problem many others share. All of the sudden, people seem to be coming out of nowhere with praise for Jackson, making many folks think, "OMG where were these people a few years ago when he was on trial?!" These people did not come out of nowhere. They have *always* thought highly of his work. Regardless of some trial, regardless of what he did, people STILL ENJOY his music and they appreciate how he contributed to pop. They weren't talking about it a few years ago because the media was ignoring MJ; his death has brought his music and persona back into the spotlight.
Just as these people have the right to still remember him the way they want to, so do I. To be fair, I started by posting my somewhat harsh opinion of him, which met with immediate criticism (not suprisingly); it wasn't me who first went after OWM's or your view of him. I never once said you can't appreciate what he did for pop culture, although I myself think his achievements are overshadowed by his crimes. It's an interesting discussion at any rate, made so by him being such a complex individual.
"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
General_Zavier Squire
posted 06-29-09 05:00 PM
CT (US)
41 / 54
Just as I feel OJ Simpson is a murderer despite a jury saying he isn't, so too I feel MJ was a pedophile despite never being punished by the courts.
Quick question, even though its commonly accepted that both OJ is a murderer and MJ touched little boys, where's the proof? I mean no offense, but you just sound really dumb when you say that. Both of them were tried in a court of law, and both of them were found innocent because there was not enough evidence to convict them.
So what makes you think that you, some anonymous internet poster, has the forensics expertise and knowledge about the case to say for sure that OJ murdered those people and MJ molested those people? Where is your proof? I don't care how you feel about MJ and OJ, or how many tabloid newspapers you've read, but from the looks of it, you have zero evidence other than what you've heard in the tabloids and your personal opinion to back that statement up. You're only making yourself look like a fool and upsetting the people who feel differently.
Now he's dead, and all of a sudden he's this great artist whose reputation was ruined by the big, bad media.
Well now that he's dead people feel bad about making statements about him being a pedophile. They feel compassion and empathy. I'd be worried about you if you didn't feel just a little bit more understanding and compassionate about Michael Jackson now that he's dead.
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. ~Niels Bohr No matter how hard you try, you cannot outwit stupid people. ~Anonymous Romano British AAR ~Defunct. Kingdom of Albion AAR ~Finished 1/26/08. WRE Migration/Defensive AAR ~Defunct. Numidian Defensive AAR ~Ongoing
Evil Tailor Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 06-29-09 06:09 PM
CT (US)
42 / 54
OWM took offense at me calling him a pedophile, saying he was aquitted. I get what OWM is saying, just pointing out that I thought he was a terrible human before he died, and I'm not changing that now. The fact you agreed with OWM using the term aquitted brought you into this.
I didn't mean to offend you. No serious evidence was presented against him, and that's that. He was acquitted on account of not being found guilty, not because the jury were fans. He was crazy, no doubt, but he wasn't a criminal, at least in the way he's painted to have been.
Quick question, even though its commonly accepted that both OJ is a murderer and MJ touched little boys, where's the proof?
And as for Michael Jackson, there was proof AGAINST the case. What more do you need?
Michael Jackson's childhood ended when he was 8. I think he just genuinely liked children in an innocent way. If he liked to sleep in the same room with children, it's a far cry from paedophilia no matter how WEIRD you find it.
"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing." -- Christopher Hitchens http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
Powery Squire
posted 06-29-09 06:36 PM
CT (US)
43 / 54
Agree with OWM, and besides, if MJ had something in his mind not in its place, the guilty, most of all, is the hard-pressuring entertainment industry which had a grasp at Michael since his early childhood.
[This message has been edited by Powery (edited 06-29-2009 @ 06:37 PM).]
TheLaughingMule Lady Mule
posted 06-29-09 08:14 PM
CT (US)
44 / 54
I defend Matty opinion because its his opinion. Free speech and all that good stuff, 'eh?
Personally - I have sympathy for any family that loses someone dear.
I didn't listen to MJ's music, so I have nothing else to add.
Mr Wednesday Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 06-30-09 01:08 AM
CT (US)
45 / 54
Quick question, even though its commonly accepted that both OJ is a murderer and MJ touched little boys, where's the proof?
In the case of OJ Simpson, there was his DNA found on fingernails of his victim. MJ was less of a slam dunk, but the comparison was originally to just show that not everyone who is found innocent is actually.
I mean no offense, but you just sound really dumb when you say that.
That's fine if you feel it's dumb, but I find your position similarly ridiculous. To look abnormal amounts of contrary circumstantial evidence in the face and disregard it because a court of law finds it to not be enough by our legal system is naive. Every year, people walk who deserve to be punished, that's the thing with a system ran by humans. It can't be perfect.
And there is a lot of circumstantial evidence in this case, like his sister accusing him of being a pedophile (and then oddly saying that wasn't true), the fact the kid pretty much described his you-know-what accurately, and the fact Jackson did cooperate with them on a financial settlement (I know if I were truly innocent, I`d rather die than pay someone accusing me of this). Do I think he should have been found guilty, I dunno, there wasn't completely conclusive evidence, although there isn't very often in such cases. But IMO, it's enough for a rational citizen to make an informed decision on the subject.
I didn't mean to offend you.
Certainly not. I count on you to have an opposite opinion to me on most subjects.
"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
Evil Tailor Squire
(id: Other White Meat)
posted 06-30-09 04:05 AM
CT (US)
46 / 54
I defend Matty opinion because its his opinion. Free speech and all that good stuff, 'eh?
I think it's Rousseau that said "I would die for your right to disagree with me." Or something along those lines.
Certainly not. I count on you to have an opposite opinion to me on most subjects.
Aww come on But it's true, right now I can't remember if we've ever agreed on a subject
"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing." -- Christopher Hitchens http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)
Scud Primus inter pares
posted 06-30-09 09:43 AM
CT (US)
47 / 54
I think it's Rousseau that said "I would die for your right to disagree with me." Or something along those lines.
Well exCUSE me, fusspot. It's not like I read French enlightenment philosophers every friggin day!
"While I'm profaning I might as well do the whole f*cking thing." -- Christopher Hitchens http://soundcloud.com/adult-entertainment - Intriguing music! Made by me! (It's excellent!)