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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Town's Crier » Vote Vote II: Twelve Angry Forumers
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Topic Subject:Vote Vote II: Twelve Angry Forumers
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Lord Sipia
Knight
posted 10-19-18 07:13 AM CT (US)         
Welcome to the political discussion thread!



  • Any discourse about politics is welcome here, provided that it takes place within the bounds established by the Code of Conduct.
  • Please remember to be cordial to your fellow forumers despite the passion doubtlessly pumping through your veins.
  • Try to stay near the top of the argument pyramid.

    Proceeding with the above in mind, the debate is now in session. You may begin your argument when ready.

  • "You can't open up the story of my life and just go to page 738 and think you know me."
    --Arin "Egoraptor" Hanson (on judging people by their Google search history)

    "It's hard to have an existential crisis when everything is so pretty."
    --Dan "Danny Sexbang" Avidan
    AuthorReplies:
    Popeychops
    "Cool" Huskarl
    posted 08-17-19 03:20 PM CT (US)     401 / 426       
    I've not had an English identity since I was a child. My British identity might end in a few years when Britain is no longer a country?

    What am I left as, except a Londoner?

    Member of BlackForest Studios
    Co-creator of Silent Evil (4.6) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009 (Most Fave'd Multiplayer Scenario)
    and The Seas of Egressa (4.8) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010
    "Popey just hates everywhere." - Chocolate Jesus, on my fear of Romanian organ-traffickers
    "Hooray for Dear Leader-Comrade-Generalissimo-Presidente-Lord Protector Popey!" - Lord Sipia, on my benevolent, iron-fisted rule
    "You're not Popeychops; you don't get to physics." - Moff, in response to a clumsy muon simile
    Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
    Moff
    (id: Moff Yittreas)
    posted 08-17-19 06:29 PM CT (US)     402 / 426       
    An incredibly adorable tiny senpai waitress?

    At least, in my heart <3

    New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
    Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
    "Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
    Lord Sipia
    Knight
    posted 08-18-19 04:18 AM CT (US)     403 / 426       
    In Manhattan, born and raised...
    A'ight then, suppose I should get back to this.

    What I think is the critical question here is why this guy feels such a strong connection with a country that he's most likely only visited, if even that, while loathing the country he was born and grew up in. What does that tell you about the relationship between the person and his environment? I think it's fair to guess that the perception he has of Japan is probably not accurate to reality. This is nostalgia in its purest definition: sentimentality for a past, even one you never experienced yourself. He seems to feel that Japan is his true home, but can you truly call a place you've never lived home? The point is, the reason why he seems to think he belongs in Japan despite having lived in America all his life is probably because he lacks a sense of belonging in America. When you feel disconnected from your environment, you flee to other things, like your ancestry. If the country you live in doesn't feel like home, then it must lie elsewhere, right?

    You ask "Where's the line, though?" as if you mean to say, "That's all well and good, but how much bullshit do you expect me to put up with?" That's not what I'm arguing for, though. I'm not in the business of putting up with bullshit. Guy sounds like an asshole, at least the way you describe him. My business is finding out the nature of the bullshit, discovering where it comes from, understanding why this happens. That way one can respond accordingly.

    "You can't open up the story of my life and just go to page 738 and think you know me."
    --Arin "Egoraptor" Hanson (on judging people by their Google search history)

    "It's hard to have an existential crisis when everything is so pretty."
    --Dan "Danny Sexbang" Avidan
    Neochud
    Squire
    (id: Taichud)
    posted 08-18-19 05:31 AM CT (US)     404 / 426       
    @Popeychops, in time, a South Briton I suppose.

    @Lord Sipia, given what Moff said about how he was proud he didn't "spoil" his mother tongue until elementary school, I would guess that his parents created an early environment where he came to develop an anti-American and Japanese nationalist mentality. The Japanese often lack in self-criticism in regards to their history, and perhaps the grandparents also experienced American internment camps during WWII. Quite possibly this attitude was then reinforced when he was bullied at school for his race, which is pretty likely.

    The issue for him is of course that he'd almost certainly be regarded as an outsider in the country he views as the mythical homeland, at least to an extent. Nikkei Japanese are considered a strange and quaint lot in Japan I've heard.

    Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
    Moff
    (id: Moff Yittreas)
    posted 08-18-19 12:04 PM CT (US)     405 / 426       
    So, the complete lack of attempt at assimilation--or integration--coupled with a deliberate fostering of an isolationist mindset leads to reduced quality of life (you're a stranger in an enemy land from birth?) and general hostility...?

    New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
    Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
    "Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology

    [This message has been edited by Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo (edited 08-18-2019 @ 12:24 PM).]

    Lord Sipia
    Knight
    posted 08-18-19 12:17 PM CT (US)     406 / 426       
    I would put my money on the parenting he got being a symptom of a larger issue, not the root of the problem itself. Of course, knowing nothing about this guy or his parents, that's wild guesswork on my part. It is my firm belief that people do not randomly reject the country they live in; something else must cause that to happen.

    "You can't open up the story of my life and just go to page 738 and think you know me."
    --Arin "Egoraptor" Hanson (on judging people by their Google search history)

    "It's hard to have an existential crisis when everything is so pretty."
    --Dan "Danny Sexbang" Avidan
    Neochud
    Squire
    (id: Taichud)
    posted 08-18-19 02:29 PM CT (US)     407 / 426       
    It's not that hard to develop resentment towards the host country as an immigrant. There were definitely times as a child in the UK, when I was not well-equipped to emotionally process racism, that I became hostile towards the United Kingdom and looked with longing back to Germany but especially Japan, of which I had the least experience and could therefore turn into some idealized homeland.

    Among other things, I remember when a boy cheered when I said that my great-grandfather died fighting the British. It was challenging me to deal with this, because while I understood my great-grandfather fought for the wrong side I also believed he deserved at least a modicum of respect as long as there was no evidence he was a war criminal, although I questioned myself on that when I found no empathy with the English teachers.

    I had similar tumult when people deliberately celebrated the dropping of the atomic bombs in my face. I saw this as a lack of compassion on the part of the British, and sometimes I felt a hostility towards Britain in general for it. Nowadays I understand that such unpleasant acts don't represent the whole of the British character, although I could link them to a tendency among British people to make light of tragedy, which I believe is perhaps partly due to Britain's lack of national tragedies on the level that some other nations have suffered (EDIT: the First World War being perhaps an exception in fairly recent times).

    But I will always maintain that the British are more tolerant and accepting of foreigners than the vast majority of other peoples.

    [This message has been edited by Neochud (edited 08-18-2019 @ 03:24 PM).]

    Popeychops
    "Cool" Huskarl
    posted 08-22-19 08:21 AM CT (US)     408 / 426       
    There were definitely times as a child in the UK, when I was not well-equipped to emotionally process racism, that I became hostile towards the United Kingdom and looked with longing back to Germany but especially Japan, of which I had the least experience and could therefore turn into some idealized homeland.
    I think I remember this, back in the day you exposed some... questionable... ideas about German and Japanese history.
    Among other things, I remember when a boy cheered when I said that my great-grandfather died fighting the British.
    And that explains a lot. Jesus, that's horrific, I'm so sorry about that. Your teachers should have stepped in to explain that soldiers in totalitarian regimes did not and do not have a choice whether to fight.

    That said:
    I had similar tumult when people deliberately celebrated the dropping of the atomic bombs in my face.
    I think they're worth celebrating because they (along with the Soviet invasion of Manchuria) hastened the end of WWII and averted a bloodbath on the beaches during operation Downfall. Might also be debatable whether their use has prevented a latter, more destructive, nuclear conflict.

    Britain has a psyche scarred by national tragedies though. It's obsessed with romanticising the past. Both world wars shaped us in a way that's still felt through the political power of the baby boomers. The retreat from Empire and the Suez crisis led to a profound lack of identity throughout the late 20th century and the country has cycled between boom and bust to the point of being called "the sick man of Europe" like a latter-day Ottoman Empire.

    We're experiencing the result of that lack of identity as the Atlanticists war with the Europeans and their weapons are emotion and nostalgia. Britain doesn't know what it is. The class pyramid is now a binary between landlords and tenants. We're going to experience a crisis like Japan's lost decade in the near future, with the same ageing population pyramid. Immigration is the only thing preventing a complete crisis in social care and people our age may have to make a choice between suicide, working to death, or bankruptcy.

    Britain has been tolerant and accepting because it's been a successful, well-governed country since 1997. Since 2015 the Conservative governments have become more and more chaotic. We're in the middle of a cultural war between the young and the old. The young will win, as they always do, but the cost will be their future.

    I'm very afraid of what the future of my country will be. Like I said, I predict that it will cease to exist, and I will become an ex-citizen forced to hold a passport of a land that is not mine. I've got no English identity left. It was beaten out of me by this place. An impoverished England might well become a nastier and nastier place, with far-right politics like Italy, Poland or Hungary. But it will happen over my dead body. I really, literally, mean that.

    Member of BlackForest Studios
    Co-creator of Silent Evil (4.6) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009 (Most Fave'd Multiplayer Scenario)
    and The Seas of Egressa (4.8) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010
    "Popey just hates everywhere." - Chocolate Jesus, on my fear of Romanian organ-traffickers
    "Hooray for Dear Leader-Comrade-Generalissimo-Presidente-Lord Protector Popey!" - Lord Sipia, on my benevolent, iron-fisted rule
    "You're not Popeychops; you don't get to physics." - Moff, in response to a clumsy muon simile
    Neochud
    Squire
    (id: Taichud)
    posted 08-22-19 01:57 PM CT (US)     409 / 426       
    They did not celebrate it in the sense that it ended the World Wars. They were trying to provoke me by cheering the violent deaths of the civilians of Nagasaki, where my family comes from. I mean it sounds shocking, but you know how children are.

    Also, I think we should be more optimistic. The extent of racism seen in other countries will not return to the UK for a long time yet.

    Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
    Moff
    (id: Moff Yittreas)
    posted 08-23-19 03:01 PM CT (US)     410 / 426       
    Whatever my disagreements with California, I'm glad we didn't repeatedly nuke California to improve interstate commerce.

    New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
    Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
    "Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
    Lord Sipia
    Knight
    posted 08-29-19 06:12 AM CT (US)     411 / 426       


    London seems to be mildly upset at the latest turn of events.

    "You can't open up the story of my life and just go to page 738 and think you know me."
    --Arin "Egoraptor" Hanson (on judging people by their Google search history)

    "It's hard to have an existential crisis when everything is so pretty."
    --Dan "Danny Sexbang" Avidan
    Popeychops
    "Cool" Huskarl
    posted 08-29-19 12:45 PM CT (US)     412 / 426       
    It actually is. I'm in Cardiff and it feels a bit empty

    Member of BlackForest Studios
    Co-creator of Silent Evil (4.6) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009 (Most Fave'd Multiplayer Scenario)
    and The Seas of Egressa (4.8) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010
    "Popey just hates everywhere." - Chocolate Jesus, on my fear of Romanian organ-traffickers
    "Hooray for Dear Leader-Comrade-Generalissimo-Presidente-Lord Protector Popey!" - Lord Sipia, on my benevolent, iron-fisted rule
    "You're not Popeychops; you don't get to physics." - Moff, in response to a clumsy muon simile
    Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
    Moff
    (id: Moff Yittreas)
    posted 09-03-19 10:08 AM CT (US)     413 / 426       
    A Tory defected to the LibDems, and Johnson just lost his majority.

    EDIT: HOLD UP!

    Damn, I can't post the infographic because someone put a TTOI quote across it and we enforce the "hiding profanity in images" rule sometimes.

    But the frigging Scottish secession party has MORE THAN TWICE the representation of the LibDems?

    New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
    Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
    "Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology

    [This message has been edited by Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo (edited 09-03-2019 @ 11:07 AM).]

    Neochud
    Squire
    (id: Taichud)
    posted 09-04-19 03:43 PM CT (US)     414 / 426       
    Secession is a very American word, more apt for separation from a federation than a centralized state with devolved powers. Just call it the Scottish independence party. The SNP has been immensely successful electorally in Scotland since 2015 I think? So Scottish people, at least back then, didn't want independence, but they did want the SNP. Old news.

    As for the Lib Dems, well they were seriously damaged by their coalition with David Cameron's Conservatives 2010-2015 and were reduced to a tiny minority party. Now they might have a chance to come back but who knows.

    Popeychops
    "Cool" Huskarl
    posted 09-05-19 03:53 AM CT (US)     415 / 426       
    But the frigging Scottish secession party has MORE THAN TWICE the representation of the LibDems?
    It's a quirk of first-past-the-post, nothing more.

    UKIP got no seats in 2015 despite coming into double figures of the vote.

    Member of BlackForest Studios
    Co-creator of Silent Evil (4.6) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009 (Most Fave'd Multiplayer Scenario)
    and The Seas of Egressa (4.8) Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010
    "Popey just hates everywhere." - Chocolate Jesus, on my fear of Romanian organ-traffickers
    "Hooray for Dear Leader-Comrade-Generalissimo-Presidente-Lord Protector Popey!" - Lord Sipia, on my benevolent, iron-fisted rule
    "You're not Popeychops; you don't get to physics." - Moff, in response to a clumsy muon simile
    Lord Sipia
    Knight
    posted 09-08-19 02:33 PM CT (US)     416 / 426       
    So the Dutch newspaper NRC had a political cartoon on Brexit yesterday that rather hit the spot... (linked because some might not find it tasteful)

    "You can't open up the story of my life and just go to page 738 and think you know me."
    --Arin "Egoraptor" Hanson (on judging people by their Google search history)

    "It's hard to have an existential crisis when everything is so pretty."
    --Dan "Danny Sexbang" Avidan
    Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
    Moff
    (id: Moff Yittreas)
    posted 09-08-19 06:05 PM CT (US)     417 / 426       
    Damn.

    But still less borked than this solution to global warming:

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/sep/6/cannibalism-whacked-scientist-says-eating-humans-c/?fbclid=IwAR0ZxRTJscXZFQIQbroPbrbPpdp1yvPMBu6EaMRLGje68bgVxxEdjzXWWmU

    New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
    Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
    "Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
    Mithril Knight
    Squire
    posted 09-08-19 11:23 PM CT (US)     418 / 426       
    I wonder what Soylent Green is made out of...

    ►►►►Mithril Knight◄◄◄◄
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    Lord Sipia
    Knight
    posted 09-09-19 03:32 AM CT (US)     419 / 426       
    But still less borked than this solution to global warming:
    Eh. They found the kookiest hack out there and used it as an excuse to write a "Look at what bile-inducing schemes these amoral leftists and their climate change shenanigans have devised this time!" article. And they make sure to refer to the guy as a scientist in the title just to feed the (presumed) target audience's anti-intellectualism. Both the whackjob and this attention-needy article deserve to be ignored to death.

    "You can't open up the story of my life and just go to page 738 and think you know me."
    --Arin "Egoraptor" Hanson (on judging people by their Google search history)

    "It's hard to have an existential crisis when everything is so pretty."
    --Dan "Danny Sexbang" Avidan
    Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
    Moff
    (id: Moff Yittreas)
    posted 09-09-19 05:37 AM CT (US)     420 / 426       
    Indeed. I've seen it floating about for a while, but my curiosity got the better of me. Still, we are seeing an unpleasant rise in the new Malthusan cult. Even Bernie got inveigled by one.

    New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
    Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
    "Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
    Neochud
    Squire
    (id: Taichud)
    posted 09-09-19 10:29 AM CT (US)     421 / 426       
    I stopped reading when the writer called it a "far-left idea". Ridiculous.

    What Malthusian cult are you talking about Moff? What did Bernie Sanders say?

    ax_man1
    Squire
    posted 09-10-19 01:05 AM CT (US)     422 / 426       
    I wonder what Soylent Green is made out of...
    Feet. It's made of feet.

    And don't mind Moff. He rags on liberals and democrats all the time, despite that his positions for the most part lean left

    ax_man1

    Owner of a post 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500
    Not all are in the same thread, but 4 of them are
    Neochud
    Squire
    (id: Taichud)
    posted 09-10-19 07:50 AM CT (US)     423 / 426       
    I'm not minding Moff. I was genuinely curious as to what Malthusian cult he was talking about!

    Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
    Moff
    (id: Moff Yittreas)
    posted 09-10-19 08:02 AM CT (US)     424 / 426       
    Borrowing Dimi's words. This is the incident, as covered by the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49601678

    http://www.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=1&tn=342487&st=869#post870

    And the commentary.

    New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
    Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
    "Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
    Neochud
    Squire
    (id: Taichud)
    posted 09-10-19 08:33 AM CT (US)     425 / 426       
    Let's be fair to Sanders.

    He wasn't talking about the planet's food capacity but about climate change. Although an individual in the developing world has a far lower carbon footprint than someone in the developed world the gap is fast decreasing as the developing world catches up. So there being fewer humans would still be beneficial in minimizing climate change, regardless of where they come from.

    Also it's true that women in the developing world should have access to abortions if they want them, as American women do.

    It's less about eugenics and more about killing two birds with one stone.

    So to be honest I don't see the issue with what he said but I can see how it would offend people who believe abortion is murder and how some conservatives would use this as an opportunity to do a hatchet job on Sanders.

    Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
    Moff
    (id: Moff Yittreas)
    posted 09-10-19 09:07 AM CT (US)     426 / 426       
    Oh, they absolutely did. As I said, his words were twisted.

    New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
    Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
    "Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
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