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Topic Subject:Age of Chivalry - Download Now!
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Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 08-15-06 03:46 PM CT (US)         


GET IT HERE
Present version 2.03 - updated 29 December 2018.


Join the AoCH Discord!

Age of Chivalry - a total conversion modpack for AoE II:TC set in Western and Central Europe 1100-1500 AD.
Requires the c patch (Don't install it if your version of AoK already has the c patch pre-installed!)

The first modification pack for Age of Empires II that changes every civilisation in the game, Age of Chivalry: Hegemony is a unique and critically acclaimed project set in Western and Central Europe during the period 1100-1500.

Changing not only graphics and civilisations, the entire gameplay has been altered to better reflect the intricacies of High and Late Medieval politics and warfare, and to make each country provide a unique playing experience. There's new, civilisation-specific buildings such as the Princely Court, the Guild Hall and the Assembly Hall, as well as over a dozen new technologies, unique and revolutionary Policy Decisions, a mercenary system, new combat dynamics and even a revised history section. An eight-scenario historical campaign featuring some of the period's decisive battles and sieges is included to introduce some of these elements to the player.

New features:
• Command one of three types of civilisation: the early-game Communal civilisations, the mid-game, militia/spear-centred Urban societies or the heavy infantry/cavalry Noble principalities
• Prepare to fight! Changed game mechanics ensure a much earlier start to the combat, with archery units available in the first age and castles and battering rams in the second
• Complement your armies with mercenaries like the Genoese Crossbowman, the Privateer, or Scots Guards
• Take up the fight as Austria, Bavaria, Bohemia, Brandenburg, Brittany, Burgundy, Denmark, England, Flanders, Florence, France, Friesland, Genoa, Guelders, Helvetia, Hungary, Liège, Milan, Naples, the Papal States, Poland, Savoy, Saxony, Scotland, Venice, or Wales, each completely different
• Advance your country on one of at least two paths by making essential policy decisions, affecting the future of your people
• New buildings, technologies, and units, from the ordinances of the Princely Court to the might of each faction’s hero
• Research new, civ-specific, technologies, such as English Longbowmen or Helvetia's Eidgenossenschaft
• Discover the history of each of the 26 countries - plus special articles on the period's conflicts and warriors
• Historical 9-scenario campaign takes you through some of the major events of the period (the battle of Bouvines, the Barons' War, the conquest of West Friesland, the battle of Kortrijk, the start of the Hundred Years War, the battle of Chioggia, the siege of Maastricht, the battle of Vitkov Hill and the siege of Neuss)

Comes with auto-installer - no more hassle moving files about!

Download (99 mb)
GET IT HERE (version 2.03, 29 December 2018)
Mirror on ModDB HERE

German language pack
A German language pack is available for version 2.03, made by Marian Spill (install after installing the latest release of Age of Chivalry).
Download it from:
[Mirror 1] [Mirror 2]

Italian language pack
An Italian language pack for verson 2.03 was made by JimGam9 (Gianmarco Di Totero) (install after installing the latest release of Age of Chivalry).
[Mirror 1] [Mirror 2]

Spanish language pack
A Spanish language pack is also available, made by igorhp (most of the work), wowegoo and Sak (install after installing the latest release of Age of Chivalry).
Download it from:
[Mirror 1] [Mirror 2]

igorhp - Steam profile
ZyPhr@™ / wowegoo - Steam profile
Sak - Steam profile - Youtube channel

Additional resources:
- Homepage, featuring country profiles.
- The Age of Chivalry wiki, maintained by jordanthejq12.
- A visual tech tree made by HerzogDePuce.

Now includes the Userpatch, which allows you to set the population limit to 1000, play with widescreen, and many more features besides!

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.

[This message has been edited by Kor (edited 05-06-2019 @ 02:17 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Jan dc
Squire
(id: Den cekke)
posted 11-14-12 06:18 PM CT (US)     2766 / 5772       
The online community is as good as gone except for those few ppl who play it with friends on gr or lan. With aofe coming up I recon that it will be long before anyone will play chivalry on gameranger. At least not as before. I wouldn't put too much effort anymore in it except for those minor balance fixes and maybe one day when there is again more interest in the mod Kor could bring in some of the bigger chances he had planned.

[This message has been edited by den cekke (edited 11-14-2012 @ 06:19 PM).]

Kataphraktoi
Squire
posted 11-17-12 11:16 PM CT (US)     2767 / 5772       
If you want to increase activity going after the voobly crowd would be my first idea. Gameranger is just some chat program that can launch games
(I never could get AoCH actually running on voobly and im not THAT bad at getting stuff working...)

Optimizing the installer for voobly for their mod swap system could be helpful, i didnt use it myself but people who would try out a mod and enter my room often said the transfer time would be to much and left
Jan dc
Squire
(id: Den cekke)
posted 11-18-12 03:25 AM CT (US)     2768 / 5772       
Several of us tried to host chivalry games on voobly but it almost never came to an actual game. On gameranger on the other hand people often joined and didn't mind trying out something new. They were mostly noobs but noobs are more into trying alternative stuff while good players tend to stick to what they know. They're scared of change=D.
And of course on voobly they were still hosting 1.74.
Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 11-18-12 06:21 AM CT (US)     2769 / 5772       
Kataphraktoi: Age of Chivalry isn't primarily aimed at a multiplayer audience, in part because the historical/creative basis of the game will always trump perfect balance, in my opinion, and the more professional multiplayer audience will prefer vanilla, anyway. Nor is there much chance of the mod becoming popular with such an audience when Age of Forgotten Empires is nearing release and aiming specifically for a multiplayer audience (so it will be interesting to see whether the online community will take to it - best of luck to them!).

What's more, I didn't really design Age of Chivalry with a large audience in mind. Rather, together with Andrew Dunn I designed the game I wanted to play myself. Most mods and pc games focus on the exact same countries - England, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Poland, Hungary, etc - which are pretty much just projections of the modern balance of power. But medieval countries did not function in the same way modern countries did, and so such games suppress regional diversity, which was (and is) much greater than that depicted in any game. We wanted to give a different perspective on things, firstly by including more small scale powers, which nonetheless played a significant role, particularly in border regions, and secondly by using the policy decisions so that even the larger countries we've included can yield variable, unpredictable gameplay.

Because a significant number of polities in this mod are frankly obscure, we didn't really predict any kind of popular response. We were expecting, frankly, a lot more complaints about Spain, Portugal, Ireland etc missing (there have been some of these, but not that many). But since the release of the last patch in September, Age of Chivalry has been downloaded over ten thousand times on moddb and the Blacksmith put together. These figures are staggering: in the Blacksmith, most files struggle to get a few hundred downloads in that timespan. So Age of Chivalry has already overperformed, at least in my opinion. In that respect, I can't possibly be disappointed.

Nevertheless, a project such as this one will always be open to improvements. And I'm not talking about balance here: some creative aspects can be improved upon, such as some unit graphics. I don't really have time to do any more work on those myself at the moment (I have a full time job now, and plenty of things to do besides, so it's hard for me to find time to do graphical work in particular). I'm also thinking about some other additions, which I already mentioned to some individuals, but I won't really go into any great depth until I know I can actually pull them off. Anyway, enjoy the mod for what it is. With 80k+ downloads in the Blacksmith there must be some merit to it!

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
Powery
Squire
posted 11-18-12 01:10 PM CT (US)     2770 / 5772       
Age of chivalry is very fun to play on multiplayer once you get to know it.
jordanthejq12
Squire
posted 11-19-12 04:02 PM CT (US)     2771 / 5772       
I say we aim toward a multiplayer audience in the future. We seem to have perfected the SP gameplay, so why don't we take it to the greater community? We could definitely generate more interest that way. It doesn't have to be done tomorrow, or anytime soon, but it's something to aim for.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 11-19-12 06:27 PM CT (US)     2772 / 5772       
SP gameplay will be "perfect" once the AI got its final polish; and I show full understanding to Leif if he currently has other things that keep him busy.
Leif Ericson
Seraph Emeritus
posted 11-19-12 07:18 PM CT (US)     2773 / 5772       
I will have some free time since I'll be on break for ~5 days. I have been planning for a while on using some of that time to script for Chivalry.

~`o´~|\  Join the fresh and exciting AI Ladder for its fourth season!
´ `  |_\
       |    Learn the joy of AI scripting in my guide: The World of AI Scripting
______|______
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   .....Hinga Dinga Durgen! - SpongeBob
  `-=<.__.>=-´
John the Late
Knight
posted 11-20-12 07:51 AM CT (US)     2774 / 5772       
Now that the userpatch from xOmicron is out, would it be possible for you to re-add Lorraine? Somehow miss them...
Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 11-20-12 01:10 PM CT (US)     2775 / 5772       
John the Late: I am planning on making the next version require the patch in some way, but I'm not planning on re-adding Lorraine, as it would probably be too similar to Poland. I have been making plans for some other new civs, but it's difficult to develop ones that are actually unique in terms of gameplay, so I may not end up adding any of them anyway.

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
jordanthejq12
Squire
posted 11-20-12 03:32 PM CT (US)     2776 / 5772       
So the full UserPatch is out. Hmm. Does it allow more than 18 civs? Because if so, we could get creative. That would definitely attract interest.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
John the Late
Knight
posted 11-20-12 05:15 PM CT (US)     2777 / 5772       
John the Late: I am planning on making the next version require the patch in some way, but I'm not planning on re-adding Lorraine, as it would probably be too similar to Poland. I have been making plans for some other new civs, but it's difficult to develop ones that are actually unique in terms of gameplay, so I may not end up adding any of them anyway.
I would not care about having two similar civs, but it's your mod one the one hand and already awesome on the other, so I won't complain about it.
So the full UserPatch is out. Hmm. Does it allow more than 18 civs? Because if so, we could get creative. That would definitely attract interest.
Oh, don't get me wrong, as far as I know the patch is still called v1.1 Beta. But you can already add own civs using xml files (although I have not done it myself).
John the Late
Knight
posted 12-01-12 04:10 PM CT (US)     2778 / 5772       
Oh and I have another question: Is there a way to get one of the older versions? I accidently overwrote my .drs and .dat files, so I need to re-install the mod. But as I deleted my install file, I would have to download it again... And there's the problem: I would like to keep my current version, but it's 1.75, and I only find downloads for 1.81.
Leif Ericson
Seraph Emeritus
posted 12-02-12 01:16 AM CT (US)     2779 / 5772       
I still have version 1.75 (whoops! I should update mine). So, I could probably email my version if Kor doesn't keep his previous versions as backups. However, I'll wait to see what Kor has to say.

However, why do you want 1.75 instead of 1.81?

~`o´~|\  Join the fresh and exciting AI Ladder for its fourth season!
´ `  |_\
       |    Learn the joy of AI scripting in my guide: The World of AI Scripting
______|______
 \        /
   .....Hinga Dinga Durgen! - SpongeBob
  `-=<.__.>=-´
John the Late
Knight
posted 12-02-12 10:13 AM CT (US)     2780 / 5772       
Don't really know... I do not like all the changes, although some are definately needed. I think I'll just download 1.81 and revert some changes myself (like Gwaster/Kigner range, more range for Bohemian mangonels, and some graphics)...
Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 12-02-12 02:48 PM CT (US)     2781 / 5772       
I don't really keep older versions (I used to keep the old installers, but my pc has since crashed). I consider the latest version to be considerably superior to 1.75 anyway.

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
John the Late
Knight
posted 12-03-12 04:26 PM CT (US)     2782 / 5772       
Ok, 2 things:

1. Yes, 1.81 is better. I tested it a bit and regret my unwillingness to update. But would you mind proving me the newest version that still has Lorraine in it? Then I'd add it to my slightly modified version of Chivalry

2. Will there be a tech tree update? With the new Advanced Genie Editor it is possible to completely change the tree, so you'd no longer need to use an external file for reference.
Lanor
Squire
posted 12-06-12 03:56 PM CT (US)     2783 / 5772       
you can get buildings in the 12th century that enable you to advance from the 13th cent to the 14th cent and you can get a castle in the 13th cent that allows you to advance from the 14th cent to the 15th cent. is this how its supposed to be? because in age of empires 2 it was 2 buildings from the age you were advancing from, or castle for the imperial age.
this was probably already brought to your attention i was just wondering if you were going to change the buildings and advancing so that if you build a stable or archery range they only help you advance to the 13th century and not the 14th etc.
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 12-08-12 06:46 AM CT (US)     2784 / 5772       
you can get buildings in the 12th century that enable you to advance from the 13th cent to the 14th cent and you can get a castle in the 13th cent that allows you to advance from the 14th cent to the 15th cent. is this how its supposed to be?
I don't see where this is a problem. From what I experienced or people told me about the way they're playing, it doesn't seem to be that important for them to age up quickly, anyway.
Furthermore, the possibility to age up quickly is still harder due to higher advancing costs.

[This message has been edited by HerzogDePuce (edited 12-08-2012 @ 06:47 AM).]

Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 12-08-12 07:35 AM CT (US)     2785 / 5772       
2. Will there be a tech tree update? With the new Advanced Genie Editor it is possible to completely change the tree, so you'd no longer need to use an external file for reference.
No. Although it is technically possible to make adjustments, the changes to the tech tree in Age of Chivalry go a little further than for most mods. There are simply too many changes for me to get the tech tree working - it crashes the game if there's only a single mistake.
this was probably already brought to your attention i was just wondering if you were going to change the buildings and advancing so that if you build a stable or archery range they only help you advance to the 13th century and not the 14th etc.
I've already made changes in the present working version (which only exists on my pc at present) where buildings contribute to the age-up requirements for that specific century. Guild halls, assembly halls and princely courts also contribute now, so aging up should be altogether more intuitive.

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 12-08-12 08:46 AM CT (US)     2786 / 5772       
Guild halls, assembly halls and princely courts also contribute now
Now that's something I really like.
Temp Den Cekke
Squire
posted 12-09-12 05:11 PM CT (US)     2787 / 5772       
Nice, I think I've mentioned that already a couple of times so I'm glad it's finally being implemented. Kor did you get my mail about the tc correction?
And if you ever would have the time could the hot keys be reevaluated. I know it's just a small aspect of the game but it would help greatly with gameplay and micro managing.

I'd also like to discuss the longships. Available in 13th century, they have 120 hp, 9 attack, 0 range, 10 pierce armor and 8 bonus attack against other ships. The other 13th century ship, the galley, on the other hand has 100 hp, 3 attack, 6 pierce armor, 3 range and 3 bonus attack against other ships. In my experience longships kill galleys with ease and dominate the seas in 13th century. In most games water control means everything and often are decided by 13th century naval warfare. So in my opinion the longships need to be nerved to give the civs that not have longships a fighting chance on sea maps.
You could argue that massed galleys still are able to kill longships but massing ships in chivalry is almost impossible with its high price and population room. You could argue that you can tower your coast but you'll have to spend resources and time getting those towers up and they still can't protect your fishing ships.
And to finish my argument I'd like to bring up the cost price: 100 wood 65 gold for galleys and 90 wood 30 gold for longships.

Let the discussion begin

[This message has been edited by Temp Den Cekke (edited 12-09-2012 @ 05:12 PM).]

Spelling Fanatic
Squire
posted 12-09-12 05:24 PM CT (US)     2788 / 5772       
I agree with Den Cekke--longboats are too cheap and too powerful.
Leif Ericson
Seraph Emeritus
posted 12-09-12 06:06 PM CT (US)     2789 / 5772       
I agree with the nerf. Hardly any civs have upgrades to the galley, so the longboat wouldn't become overpowered by other ships later in the game.

~`o´~|\  Join the fresh and exciting AI Ladder for its fourth season!
´ `  |_\
       |    Learn the joy of AI scripting in my guide: The World of AI Scripting
______|______
 \        /
   .....Hinga Dinga Durgen! - SpongeBob
  `-=<.__.>=-´
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 12-10-12 11:02 AM CT (US)     2790 / 5772       
Available in 13th century, they have 120 hp, 9 attack, 0 range, 10 pierce armor and 8 bonus attack against other ships. The other 13th century ship, the galley, on the other hand has 100 hp, 3 attack, 6 pierce armor, 3 range and 3 bonus attack against other ships.
Hardly any civs have upgrades to the galley, so the longboat wouldn't become overpowered by other ships later in the game.
What you two did not consider:
Longships have one disadvantage over Galleys and, especially, War Cogs: they have 0 armour (+8 bonus dmg) and they are melee units.
Galleys have 4 anti-ship armour (+3 bonus dmg), War Cogs even have 8 (+ 13! bonus dmg vs other ships).

We already know from the Kigner how much difference range can make. So while it's true that Longships are quite strong in their initial age, their defensive stats, imo, become weaker as the game proceeds and better ships, heated shots, and range-upgrades turn up.

I wouldn't nerf the Longship, but perhaps let Galleys benefit from Blacksmith archer upgrades to increase their range and attack. Since they are available in the 13th century, they could then already benefit from +1 attack and +1 range.
Another thing: let War Cogs cost 4 population and Galleys 3 population.

How does that sound?

[This message has been edited by HerzogDePuce (edited 12-10-2012 @ 11:04 AM).]

Leif Ericson
Seraph Emeritus
posted 12-10-12 11:35 AM CT (US)     2791 / 5772       
I forgot about war cogs.

That sounds good. I'd need to look at warship stats before I confirm that though.

~`o´~|\  Join the fresh and exciting AI Ladder for its fourth season!
´ `  |_\
       |    Learn the joy of AI scripting in my guide: The World of AI Scripting
______|______
 \        /
   .....Hinga Dinga Durgen! - SpongeBob
  `-=<.__.>=-´
Jan dc
Squire
(id: Den cekke)
posted 12-10-12 01:27 PM CT (US)     2792 / 5772       
They are ranged melee ships? Well I figured out something was wrong because they did more damage than what I calculated. Nonetheless something needs to be done. In all my sea games where longships were involved they dominated the sea in 13th century, even with the range difference. I could post several records to proof it. There was even this guy who was 1700 rating on voobly who resigned after a sea battle against my longships because he knew he'd lose if he couldn't take water control. And then to also consider the low price those longships come with.
Blacksmith upgrades would be a good idea. Though I never said war cogs didn't kill longships. War Cogs actually kill longships just as easy as they kill galleys.


Btw I also want to discus Brittany. What besides cavalry do they have good?

[This message has been edited by den cekke (edited 12-10-2012 @ 03:24 PM).]

HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 12-10-12 04:36 PM CT (US)     2793 / 5772       
I never said war cogs didn't kill longships.
No, but afair their ingame unit description says that they are good to fight War Cogs. However, due to their lack of ship armour, the +13 bonus of War Cogs actually makes them the unit to counter Longships rather than vice versa.
I also want to discus Brittany. What besides cavalry do they have good?
Want to have a "theoretical" answer from me considering all strong units they have to offer?
Or do you need a "tactical" answer? Then my knowledge might not be enough, since that requires "situational thinking" which I lack due to less experience.


(by the way: such a question is the to be discussed in jordan's discussion threat)

[This message has been edited by HerzogDePuce (edited 12-10-2012 @ 04:41 PM).]

Jan dc
Squire
(id: Den cekke)
posted 12-10-12 06:03 PM CT (US)     2794 / 5772       
It's just that I've experienced the same situation twice. 1v1 Brittany vs Flanders. No matter what combination of units I use nothing seems to works against Flanders or any pike civ for that matter. Brittany relies heavily on cavalry but if the enemy has ranged pikes they're as good as useless. Your own skirmishers and pikemen miss 2 blacksmith upgrades, you don't have footmen, no foot knights, no onagers, no heavy scorpions, mounted xbows seems to die pretty fast against pikemen, caproen and skirmishers. I even tried longbows to kill the pikemen but caproens and bombard cannons take even those out. In the last game I played against someone with a lower rating and in that game I sent 1500 units out and he 800. But he didn't have too much trouble killing me.
I'm just wondering if the op kigners weren't hiding Brittany's lack of other units and combinations.

Don't get me wrong Brittany is still awesome if you're a pocket player in a team game or you manage to mass kigners and other cavalry units for raiding and hit & run. But if the enemy does get to your base and he's a civ with decent pike combination it's seems really hard to not die. Or if it's a closed map you just have the same problem.
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 12-10-12 07:38 PM CT (US)     2795 / 5772       
Brittany relies heavily on cavalry but if the enemy has ranged pikes they're as good as useless. Your own skirmishers and pikemen miss 2 blacksmith upgrades, you don't have footmen, no foot knights, no onagers, no heavy scorpions, mounted xbows seems to die pretty fast against pikemen, caproen and skirmishers. I even tried longbows to kill the pikemen but caproens and bombard cannons take even those out.
Longbowmen are usually my choice when it comes to melee. Crossbows work well against Bombards, but then you have the disadvantage of high costs in case the BCs get some well-aimed shots. Handgunners are also an interesting option - which face the same problem: costs.

About the Mtd Xbows: did you try to use them in the way Kigners were used before, i.e. Hit'n'Run, or to destroy Bombards without getting in reach of pikes?
I'm just wondering if the op kigners weren't hiding Brittany's lack of other units and combinations.
Could be. Keep in mind that they have probably been the most-used unit with Brittany (at least for me). Also, most bonuses that you get with that civ centre around cavalry.

However, in terms of archery they're not that bad. They get all upgrades but Arbalests and the final armour upgrade - which is balanced by more HP.
Flanders, on the other hand, lacks Thumbring, but doesn't have to pay more for units.

So i somewhat get your point: Brittany has a weak spot in almost every branch and mainly excels at mounted strength and quick tactics.

Their Unique Tech is also rather situational. I wonder if Brittany could, perhaps, get a second one. I wouldn't even mind if it was policy-dependent (e.g. "Scorched Earth" when allying with England and the new UT when allying with France).
Brittany is still awesome if you're a pocket player in a team game or you manage to mass kigners and other cavalry units for raiding and hit & run. But if the enemy does get to your base and he's a civ with decent pike combination it's seems really hard to not die.
I know what you mean. I once had a strong go with Brittany (back when Kigners were OP) until the enemy found a way to sneak some Trebuchets to my borders and destroy my castles. That's what ended my "dominion".


Apart from that, I always thought that Kigners where the first choice when it came to fighting pikemen (and since their nerf I thought about adding some Mtd Xbows).

[This message has been edited by HerzogDePuce (edited 12-10-2012 @ 08:10 PM).]

Jan dc
Squire
(id: Den cekke)
posted 12-11-12 01:46 AM CT (US)     2796 / 5772       
Missing ring archer armor, arbalest and being more expensive seems like a big nerf for archers to me. I did try mounted xbows but they died faster than they were created so I gave up on them. Longbow seemed to last longer but they cost too much(75 florings!) and got killed by bombard cannons and caproens. Maybe I should have gone with Genoese xbows but not sure if they'd stand up better against skirmishers and caproens.

Brittany also lacks Guard Towers, Keeps, Architecture, Bombard Tower, Heated Shot, Fortified Walls and Siege Engineers. So it's hard to organize a raid if you can't defend your own base. Their trebs have more accuracy but what's the point if other trebs outrange yours.

And yeah in my opinion their UT probably is the most useless in the game. Wonders/relic victories are rarely played and it takes too long to gather the gold for spies.
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 12-11-12 02:55 AM CT (US)     2797 / 5772       
Missing ring archer armor, arbalest and being more expensive seems like a big nerf for archers to me.
I know what you mean. Althought the HP bonus seems to be decent, they still cost a lot (something related to some group of elite crossbowmen in Brittany that didn't last long, iirc).
Maybe I should have gone with Genoese xbows but not sure if they'd stand up better against skirmishers and caproens.
Although they have an attack bonus against infantry and higher attack/range than Longbows they are inferior due to their minimum range and mediocre accuracy, I'd say. Against Caproenen they might be ok, if you can poke them from max range, but overall I find Longbowmen better vs melee units especially due to their higher armour.
Brittany also lacks Guard Towers, Keeps, Architecture, Bombard Tower, Heated Shot, Fortified Walls and Siege Engineers.[...]Their trebs have more accuracy but what's the point if other trebs outrange yours.
because they're meant to be an offensive civ, afaik.
+1 range for me isn't a big advantage for treb vs treb fighting (against castles yes) as you can't always place them at exact max range and then you still don't hit every rock while Brittany can at least get a 100% hit with every 3rd-4th. But yeah, Siege Engineers would something that's nice to have.
And yeah in my opinion their UT probably is the most useless in the game. Wonders/relic victories are rarely played and it takes too long to gather the gold for spies.
Yap. Other civs can have two (sometimes more) UTs and then mostly all of them offer some earlier advantage. Brittany needs something to additionally give some benefit to other units but cavalry in earlier ages or early 15th instead of the late-15th cheap Spies (which are good to have, but too weak as the only UT).

[This message has been edited by HerzogDePuce (edited 12-11-2012 @ 02:58 AM).]

Jan dc
Squire
(id: Den cekke)
posted 12-14-12 03:40 PM CT (US)     2798 / 5772       
Recently I found out that English archers actually are one of the worst units in game until they get the longbow upgrade. They're as good as useless in a 13th century war and I've seen many players(including myself) being tricked in thinking they are good because of history but then actually lost a game because we try to mass archers and see them melt like snow in the sun when under attack by enemy units.
Is it possible to have them upgraded in 13th century to make them a bit stronger? Something near xbow power? England hasn't got a lot of other good stuff in that age and a lot of ppl think English archers will be awesome when they're actually not.

Btw someone told me Danish villagers have 40 hp instead of 55 when they're building something.

[This message has been edited by den cekke (edited 12-14-2012 @ 03:41 PM).]

jordanthejq12
Squire
posted 12-14-12 04:02 PM CT (US)     2799 / 5772       
So, from the last few posts, here are the ideas I'm getting from you guys:

Brittany: A second, earlier, better UT. Also, something--anything--to go on other than cavalry.
Denmark: Another villager bug.
England: Boost for archer units, perhaps in 13th Century.

How accurate is that? Because those are things that can be implemented for 1.82. For me, long-term stuff I'd love to see include Leif's finished AI (possibly built as the CPU?), full utilization of UserPatch, and a game that will attract a multiplayer community.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
John the Late
Knight
posted 12-14-12 07:13 PM CT (US)     2800 / 5772       
Perhaps move the Longbow tech to the 13th century? Afaik longbows have been around for quite some time by then, and not gaining any bigger edge later on could show the bows' decline in later medieval warfare...
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