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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Mod Design and Discussion » Tales of Middle Earth - Version 0.8.13 Released!
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Topic Subject:Tales of Middle Earth - Version 0.8.13 Released!
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Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 08-18-12 03:58 AM CT (US)         



Complete Visual Recreation of Middle Earth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Unique Gameplay to recreate the War of the Ring


Fully Functional and Engaging Mulltiplayer Experience . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Enhanced Scenario Editor for Designers


• Choose from one of 18 unique factions.
- Guide the wise and fair elves - Lindon, Rivendell, Mirkwood, Eregion, and Lothlorien.
- Fall under the sway of the Shadow with Angmar, Mordor, Isengard, Dol Guldur, or Minas Morgul.
- Place your hope in the Men of the West with Arnor, Gondor, and fabled Numenor of old.
- Ride with the Native Men of Rohan, Rhovanion, Harad, Umbar, or Rhun.


• Battle on new random maps based on real Middle Earth locations.

• Research countless new technologies and decide the path of your race with faction choices.

• Enjoy the rich world of Middle Earth as presented by one of the largest modifications ever produced for Age of Empires II.

• Create that LOTR campaign you always had in mind or play online against a friend!



Current Version: (Version 0.8.13) :: Release Date: 9/15/18


Current Development Notes:
Change Log - Find out what's changed in the latest version.

The current version of Tales of Middle Earth is fully playable. Later versions will improve balance, eliminate bugs, and possibly implement some final features. If you would like to report a bug or suggest changes, please leave a comment below or add a bug report to the github page.

NOTE: As Tales of Middle Earth is currently in a pre-release version, we ask that you bear with any discovered bugs or imbalanced stats for units or technologies. Please report any issues, and we will work hard on solutions.


The road goes ever on and on...

[This message has been edited by Mr Wednesday (edited 11-17-2018 @ 00:41 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Marcos Campos
Squire
posted 03-13-13 01:51 AM CT (US)     1821 / 3938       

(1st: i dont know how to make them in .slp and if somebody teach me i will love to help with that. )

@Jorgito

You will need to download the slpeditor or turttle pack and modworkshop. in OutDir folder(folder of modworkshop) you should create a folder, example;

Frames01

In that folder you paste all frames, example;

Gondorattack001
Gondorattack002

Always include a G in front of the name of the frame, I always select all and rename by adding a G in front example;

Gnoldorattack001
Gnoldorattack002

remember... frames in 256 colors

after it's done you will click SLPwriter.exe
click 1, put the name of the folder example;

Frames01

then click 2, create masks, and click to exit 8

slp editor... is simple you open a slp you want to change and will adding bmps

If you need to extract a slp of aok ... goes to folder options in windows toolbar click display modes and choose; -show hidden files and folders-, click apply, then you will in the Resources folder in modworkshop, click in DRs_aok.exe, open the folder data aok, and opens graphics.drs, then you choose the slp who wants to change and extracts, then just edit the slp editor

sorry my english language, if you wish i send a email in spanish or portuguese(my language) to you

anyway today i will send my email to you

google translator used.
Carter938
Squire
posted 03-13-13 04:49 AM CT (US)     1822 / 3938       
Jorgito! You are the man! Thank you!

EDIT: Jorgito I think somethings wrong with it. Its telling me that the download permission is being denied by the uploader. Can you fix that please?


What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!

[This message has been edited by Carter938 (edited 03-13-2013 @ 05:36 AM).]

Pulkit
Squire
posted 03-13-13 07:30 AM CT (US)     1823 / 3938       
I am completely open to other people writing their own AIs for TOME if they want to, but the argument that we should make it easier for custom AIs that were written for the original aok is tenuous at best. TOME is just too different. Even more so with all the proposed civ restructuring changes.
Makes sense. Agreed.
This is the revamped set for Gondor ready in the Dropbox:
Good, the new units look even better. They look healthier!
1st: i dont know how to make them in .slp and if somebody teach me i will love to help with that.
Don't worry, I'll make the SLPs.
2d: With the incoming HD thing in april, all the units are in true color so maybe convert them to aok pallette now is going to be a waste.
Correct, we need to wait and watch what happens.
Personally I don't see the point in units like orc chieftains or numenor's king units. they are basically the same as the regular lines so I think they should be abandoned. it doesn't make sense to have the basic line, then separate units for the orcs which are basically the same thing but with different graphics.
If we have unique graphics for the regular unit lines, then yes, having a separate Southron Spearman, Orc or King's Men units doesn't add much novelty. (Although I can already think of ways to make it so.)

Nevertheless, these units do have some extra punch apart from different graphics:
  • The Orc units are duplicates of regular lines, yes, but they are actually the opposite of their basic versions. Example, the Snaga's cheap costs makes it a trash version of the Militia line, and the Chieftain is the heavy-infantry version of the Pikeman.
  • The King's Men units are costlier, but ultra powerful. They beat the Imperial Age elites of each unit line, so that's where they differ from the regular units.
  • You get the point...

    Plus, these units allow for lots of new techs and choices to be added to the game, thus making it richer and more interesting to play.

    Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it

    [This message has been edited by Pulkit (edited 03-13-2013 @ 07:40 AM).]

  • Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-13-13 08:00 AM CT (US)     1824 / 3938       
    Matt, do you think you could update the thread header, with more emphasis on each of the 18 realms and showcasing jorgito's units and maybe posting new screens?
    I could, but I think it's best to wait until we can show actual in game shots. We've already been down this road of posting tons of stuff in the thread that never appeared.

    Also, I'm not sure which of the new units are being used or how they are being used, etc.

    Pulkit and I have more or less agreed to put the mod on hold for a couple weeks until we see what AoK HD is like and how it changes the landscape. Ideally, we will support both versions (CD AoK and Steam AoK), but only time will tell what that entails. I've finished all the units I was planning on adding, but like Jorgito said no point in making slp's until we know what's going to happen in April.

    ON SLPS: There is no need to use modworkshop. I use photoshop to batch convert all frames to 256, then import them all in turtle pack, set anchors, done.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
    Pulkit
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 08:12 AM CT (US)     1825 / 3938       
    Also if we wait for the SLP making, Hawk_Ruralist might just implement your tiles idea in SLP Editor to make anchor setting a cakewalk!

    Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
    Jorgito_aqua27
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 10:20 AM CT (US)     1826 / 3938       
    @carter: send me a mail and i will send you the file idk what is going on with rapid share but i cant download my own file hahaha.

    @Marcos: gracias

    __________

    Listen, concerning the units, my idea is that every civ have his own "graphical version" of every unit.

    Lets say somebody plays Numenor and choose to make a pikeman in the war hall, well this way the pikeman will look like a numenorean pikeman not aok pikeman use it by lots of civs.
    Same thing if you choose to play with rivendell, that pikeman will look like a second age elven pikeman.

    I dont not want to restructure anything concerning techs and stuffs, everything is amazing the way it is, what i want to do is give unique "visuals" for every civ, and concerning the "special unique units"... well now may not look so special because the standard units lines looks like the name of the civ you are playing and there will be no more aok original unit graphics, i wanna give that unique units even more unique graphics too so that way they look special compared to the standard unit lines.

    So you will get: archer,champ,pikeman,swordsman and unique unit that will look like the civ you choose to play, and buildings too.

    This dont affect Tome current structure in any way, it just add a different "visual" thats all, is a matter of replace graphics to give every civ an unique feeling not tech edit no unit lines restructure, etc, just changing graphics.

    Example: you play gondor and the tower guard in the castle looks like a gondorian tower guard, the rest of the units use copy/paste old graphics and some aok original units with civ3 stuffs.

    This way the champ will look like a gondorian champ, etc and still the tower guard will look unique because it looks different if you compare him with the other units i made.
    Diff helmet, long coat, diff shield, etc,etc you get the point.

    Right now i was posting standard unit lines and some unique units, i still have on hold: heros to be created in the wonders, etc... there are really looots of new graphics coming on, for example i didnt posted any cavalry graphic or heros yet.

    [This message has been edited by Jorgito_aqua27 (edited 03-13-2013 @ 10:27 AM).]

    Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-13-13 10:52 AM CT (US)     1827 / 3938       
    Really, I don't actually know how they are being implemented. Pulkit's doing a plan up for the new structure and I haven't seen it, so I'm only talking in general terms.
    i wanna give that unique units even more unique graphics too so that way they look special compared to the standard unit lines.
    But then aren't you kind of redoing the whole mod?

    I mean, sure you can do 18 sets of buildings, and 18 sets of units, and then redo all the special units, but then that will be a completely new mod. I'd rather work to finishing ToME up so that it can be played in a month of two than starting from the beginning. Pulkit and I want to finish it up soon and then just do small updates.

    And personally, while I love your graphics, I'd rather use them to add to mine, rather than just to replace everything.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
    Jorgito_aqua27
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 11:59 AM CT (US)     1828 / 3938       
    Honestly i dont understand how this will make "a whole new mod" i just want to add a simple and boring reskin for the units that are shared in commmon for all the civs.

    I am not talking of restructure anything, is really that hard to have a pikeman or archer or whatever that look like the civ you are playing instead of share the same graphic among all the civs?

    I mean maybe i cant explain what i wanna say thanks to my terrible english.

    All i want is when i choose to play lets say mordor:

    See orcs and stuffs that looks like mordor and no other civ looks like that, right now everybody can make some regular units that share the same graphics visual with all the civs.

    I dont want to change techs and other things or what the units can do or replace graphics that are already done and working good on the mod, i just wanna change the way they look.

    This way it will not be like aok that only the wonder and unique unit make the difference of a civilization.

    I will give you the example for what i plan to do in the future when i get tired of lotr.

    Take original aok, lets see if you play with france or england they share the same buildings and units but have only an unique unit and a wonder and of course different techs to make them "different".

    What i want to do is give them "only visual" unique graphics, so yes everybody will use a pikeman or archer like you usually do in aok, but they will look like a french pikeman with his own tabard and colors... jesus friken language barrier.

    So to be honest i dont know where the problem is and why all the negativity.

    Idk if the problem is convert them to .slp or if the problem is to add the new .slp to the data i could learn and help too, maybe you guys are afraid that i dont finish them? you have 44 units finished in the dropbox already.

    44 new unique units and i dont even posted all the sets!

    There is no other mod that have some many units graphics and the "new stuffs" that people offer are usually copy/paste stuffs, civ III mods, graphics taken from other old games or old recycled unused mods.. I even saw some of my old graphic pack crappy buildings or copy/paste units being used and offered as new lol!.

    There are lots of new more graphics coming, i am 100% sure that somebody else doing a TC will recive all this graphics with open arms instead of complain.

    Just to finish and dont talk about this again, I dont see where the problem is but like i said the graphics are yours use it in the way you want i am not in charge of anything i am not even in the dev team so i am not forcing to do anything, this is more like a debt that i have after i quit this project long time ago, i just wanna finish this and move on.

    [This message has been edited by Jorgito_aqua27 (edited 03-13-2013 @ 12:17 PM).]

    Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-13-13 12:24 PM CT (US)     1829 / 3938       
    Sorry, wasn't trying to make you mad.

    Really, I'm not even the best person to discuss this with, as I don't know the current structure. I am not sure what Pulkit has planned. My role as far as gameplay goes is to just make suggestions or offer up ideas, I don't really make final calls.
    44 new unituqe units, there is no other mod that have some many units graphics and there are lots of more coming, i am 100% sure that anybody else doing a TC will recive all this graphics with open arms.
    I've done around that many as well. I know how rare quality 3d modelled units are. I'm sure everyone appreciates your work.

    Let's just all wait until Pulkit finalizes his decisions. No sense worrying until then.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
    Carter938
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 01:18 PM CT (US)     1830 / 3938       
    Alright Jorgito, thanks . Im going to assume that each square is equal to 1 tile.


    What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!

    [This message has been edited by Carter938 (edited 03-13-2013 @ 02:25 PM).]

    Carter938
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 02:50 PM CT (US)     1831 / 3938       
    Ok guys, here, hopefully the last post of this image.



    Im assuming you guys all like it, cuz it really has only been resized . So im gonna say this is the final and add in eye candy, if nobody has a problem with it that is. If you do, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I really dont feel like creating another set in a way that nobody likes .


    What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!
    Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-13-13 03:12 PM CT (US)     1832 / 3938       
    Looks good. Did you play with brightness/contrast at all in photoshop? The contrast seems pretty high. It looks alright now, but the conversion might not work too well to 256 (if we still have to do that, who knows? ).

    Or maybe your light and dark sliders could use a little adjustment. I'm just wondering how the dark side will fair in 256.

    Other than that it looks good. Looks the right size too.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
    Carter938
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 03:28 PM CT (US)     1833 / 3938       
    Yeah, I thought thet could use some adjusting too. Thing is, Jorgito gave it to me, and it dosnt have the right shadow settings. What were they again?

    Anyways heres a comparsion pic (It's in normal AoE Conquerors)



    What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!

    [This message has been edited by Carter938 (edited 03-13-2013 @ 03:55 PM).]

    battlechaser
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 04:01 PM CT (US)     1834 / 3938       
    Please -oh lord- use all Jorgito's awesome graphics O.o., they're so cool and beautiful it would be so sad not too use them !
    Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-13-13 04:52 PM CT (US)     1835 / 3938       
    Carter, I just checked and you are still about 5% too big

    It's those flair outs on the bottom that are over the tile size, just zoom out a bit and rerender.

    Also, for some reason you've got a red film around the edge of your building in that screenshot. The rest looks fine though, and the contrast seems fine.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
    Carter938
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 05:39 PM CT (US)     1836 / 3938       
    Yeah, i cant seem to get the red film to go away. Will whoever is creating slps (I think its Pulkit) simply take them from here as their bmp images? Or will i need to upload them to dropbox? I think its Turtle Pack that is guilty of making the red film. And should I upload the bmp with ground shadows or without?


    What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!
    Sebastien
    Dark Samurai
    posted 03-13-13 05:57 PM CT (US)     1837 / 3938       
    I think its Turtle Pack that is guilty of making the red film. And should I upload the bmp with ground shadows or without?
    It will be. For some reason it sometimes adds selection masks around the outside of stuff.

    Try re-importing it, or using Modpack studio just to create the slp.
    Carter938
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 06:14 PM CT (US)     1838 / 3938       
    Thanks for the advice Seb.


    What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!
    Pulkit
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 06:32 PM CT (US)     1839 / 3938       
    @Jorgito: Relax, your units are in good hands! I will try to please everybody.

    @Carter: You can send Matt your bmps. It would be easier if the shadows are separate bmps, but if that's not convenient to you, then 100% black shadows will do (they are easier to extract from bmps that way).

    Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
    Carter938
    Squire
    posted 03-13-13 06:56 PM CT (US)     1840 / 3938       
    Pulkit, I would do the shadows myself, only I do not know how.


    What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!
    qaz123tfg
    Squire
    posted 03-14-13 05:41 AM CT (US)     1841 / 3938       
    Jorgito,

    Great units man. I cant write enough good things about them. If you are ever bored and/or have the time, it would be awesome to see a shotgun gandalf. lol I know its silly and maybe not worth the time it would take. Just putting that out there.

    Don't be discouraged. El camino del héroe lleva a la Trifuerza!

    Translation: The way of the hero leads to the triforce!

    Matt, Pulkit,

    As far as aoktc HD is concerned, while I understand the excitement of it, IF it is all in a graphic format greater than 256 colors, and thus requires a complete rework of the mod, I don't see why a person would re-do all that work. Additionally, current moding tools might not even work with aok HD. It took years just to be able to edit frame numbers and attack in aoktc (i remember working with DiGiT, Shadowflare, and Ykrosh mucking about in hexidecimal files). Also, A high percentage of us have non hd aoktc. I understand you guys Matt, pulkit, want to get something finished, then back off a bit. Why not finish it up in good ole 256 color?

    I know you all have put a lot of work into this mod, and I don't see the point of re doing all of that. Not trying to be confrontational, just sharing an opinion.

    [This message has been edited by qaz123tfg (edited 03-14-2013 @ 05:51 AM).]

    Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-14-13 07:53 AM CT (US)     1842 / 3938       
    To me, it looks like only terrains are updated to 32 bit, so if anything, only the terrains could be redone. I probably wouldn't go back and redo all the graphics even if we could (units have minimal loss compared to larger graphics), but I might do future ones in full color. It's all really going to depend on what Steam AoK is like, which we'll find out April 5. Until then, we just have to wait and see.

    But no worries, we are committed to supporting the CD version of AoK. So when the mod gets released, it will be playable by the most people possible, hopefully.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
    Pulkit
    Squire
    posted 03-15-13 05:21 AM CT (US)     1843 / 3938       
    Youtube videos keep popping out of nowhere! This one shows some nice in-game screenshots personally taken by the uploader.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0P7rcACVGY

    Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
    Carter938
    Squire
    posted 03-17-13 07:48 AM CT (US)     1844 / 3938       
    Jorgito, are you going to make any Variag units?

    And guys, for the past two days there ahve been no posts. everyones gone silent.


    What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!

    [This message has been edited by Carter938 (edited 03-17-2013 @ 05:14 PM).]

    Jorgito_aqua27
    Squire
    posted 03-17-13 07:14 PM CT (US)     1845 / 3938       
    Take a look at this screen so you guys can finnaly understand what i am trying to say and do and that i dont want to change Tome, not the structure nothing i am just giving unique graphics to the stuffs that repeat over and over in all the civs thats all, so dont feel offended because i am not trying to trash all the works that have been done so far, is just a visual improvement and nothing more.

    This is an example for Mordor:







    The orcs are the "best" orcs you will see since belong to mordor, best armor and stuffs and the "black orc breed" will create barad dur guards so its going to be elite.

    The trolls used in Tome:

    You are using one of my old trolls that is very bad, skinny arms and legs and stuffs.. well you get the point, the new one is basically the same style but better.

    The ice wind dale troll is very good but the perspective is not the correct and some of the animations looks weird for aok. I made the "battle troll" that you can see when they break minas tirith door in the movie.

    Cave troll, the model is amazing but only when is standing, when he walks the animation looks like if somebody introduced something in his "back part".... well i dont like it, and the attack animation is all the body standing still and only moving one arm. The new one may not look so good like the one you are using but the animations are correct and the body looks like almost stone.



    _____

    Ok concerning the base footman units, the marksman used by lots of civs looks like an orc now, same with swordsman, pikeman and sword thain.

    The snaga dudes are perfect.

    The southron spearman can use the haradrim pikeman graphics and the variag of khand will get new graphics that i didnt finish yet.

    Concerning the banner bearers, making one for every civ was my first choice, but i think that make one "standard" human, elven and orc will be better.

    Concerning the buildings i think that they look amazing for mordor and i dont want to change them.

    __________

    I will make minas morgul units next, the orcs will looks different and the "black orc" tech guys too the snaga dudes will remain the same, and also will get new buildings.

    ____________________________

    Just in case the mounted untis are going to be replaced too i didnt posted any mounted unit yet since make one is almost the same time that take me make a whole footmen lines so i will do that later.
    Pulkit
    Squire
    posted 03-17-13 08:38 PM CT (US)     1846 / 3938       
    Those units look excellent, Jorgito!

    My thoughts:

    1. The new Olog-Hai and Mountain Troll look very similar, except for the weapon. Do you think it would be a good idea to give the Mountain Troll a different skin colour, for example? This would add a variety to troll types.

    2. For the Orc Banner-bearer, keep in mind there needs to be a "with relic" version too.

    3. Is it possible in the future to render the unit shadows in black instead of a transparency? I can convert the current units' shadows from pink to black using Photoshop, but if you do that for future unit renders, that will be great.

    4. I'll do a mix of Orc and Human units for the evil civs, instead of replacing everything with Orcs, because we need to keep the touch of Human military too. Except for Dol Guldur, which is pretty much all Orcs!

    5. For other civs such as Arnor and Gondor, we don't have a new Skirmisher unit. So either I'll use your new skins on the Imperial Age versions of the regular units, or remove skirmishers from the game (I can think of alternative units that can fit the role).

    With your new units, lots of new possibilities have opened up in ToME, making it all very exciting. Keep going!

    Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
    Jorgito_aqua27
    Squire
    posted 03-17-13 10:00 PM CT (US)     1847 / 3938       
    1- Grey skin and maybe some spikes in the shoulders and a different chest sounds good for the olog hai? I was hoping to not change anything lol my computer is so old that it took me almost 2 hours to render all the animation set for only 1 troll.

    2- I will work on that and see what i can do and then show you.

    3- I cant without screwing the rest of the graphic, idk why when i get a solid black shadow the thansparency on the model get ruined and looks like a flat square, i have retouched lots of setings but cant get it to work properly.
    Teach me how to convert the shadows in photoshop and i will do it so i can save you that step at least.

    4- If you need humans for Mordor the only thing i can think of is Black numenoreans, and the alliance units like rhun, harad, umbar etc. I will like to have a full footman line of orcs + human choices, right now in tome is lots of humans and the choice of snaga and black orcs and thats it.

    5- Concerning skirmishers i can make those if you want, but for example you named gondor, as far as i know they didnt have javeliner trowers it would be good to use an archer graphic for that and maybe use a skirmisher graphic with his animation for civs like harad for example.

    ___

    Keep in mind that i didnt showed you any "special" unit yet, only the basic lines if you want from now on i can post the civ set with his full unit rooster so you can make your choices. (not cavalry yet only footmen, i prefer to get everything done and then work on that).
    Pulkit
    Squire
    posted 03-17-13 10:46 PM CT (US)     1848 / 3938       
    1- Grey skin and maybe some spikes in the shoulders and a different chest sounds good for the olog hai?
    I think the Olog-Hai is perfect. I'd suggest changing just the skin colour to something like brown for the Mountain Troll, because the Mountain Troll needs to look less "armored" and more "earthy" than Olog-Hai. But do this only if you agree and if you have time.
    3- I cant without screwing the rest of the graphic, idk why when i get a solid black shadow the thansparency on the model get ruined and looks like a flat square, i have retouched lots of setings but cant get it to work properly.
    Teach me how to convert the shadows in photoshop and i will do it so i can save you that step at least.
    Oh, that's alright then. I can make a quick batch script in Photoshop so it won't be much trouble.
    4- If you need humans for Mordor the only thing i can think of is Black numenoreans, and the alliance units like rhun, harad, umbar etc. I will like to have a full footman line of orcs + human choices, right now in tome is lots of humans and the choice of snaga and black orcs and thats it.
    Nothing special like Black Numenoreans or such, I thought of Mordor's humans as cheap and weak looking slaves from Nurn. Similar to the Dunlending and Rhudaur Hill men, such kind of people are in my mind. Just one batch of ordinary evil men units can be used for Mordor and Angmar. Again, only if you have time. Otherwise I'll mix in units from Rhun and Harad as you suggest.
    5- Concerning skirmishers i can make those if you want, but for example you named gondor, as far as i know they didnt have javeliner trowers it would be good to use an archer graphic for that and maybe use a skirmisher graphic with his animation for civs like harad for example.
    Yeah actually in Middle-Earth we don't have many examples of javelin throwers, except maybe Eomer. But still we have to have an anti-archer unit like the Skirmisher in AoK. Your suggestion is good, I'll see what I can do...
    Keep in mind that i didnt showed you any "special" unit yet, only the basic lines if you want from now on i can post the civ set with his full unit rooster so you can make your choices. (not cavalry yet only footmen, i prefer to get everything done and then work on that).
    I get to see them all in the Dropbox anyway, so you decide which units you want to showcase here to get suggestions/critiques! If you don't want any comments/critiques on a unit, you can always directly upload in the Dropbox and no one will complain!

    ----

    FYI - Angmar will now have two unique trolls: Matt's Cave Troll, and Jorgito's new cave troll which will be called the Stone Troll. Both will have different stats and bonuses. (Concept -> Stone Trolls will freeze on death, and then revive after a while (similar to Necromancy Orcs) for one more use.) Scenario designers will now be able to make the Hobbit troll scene.

    Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it

    [This message has been edited by Pulkit (edited 03-17-2013 @ 10:56 PM).]

    Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-17-13 10:58 PM CT (US)     1849 / 3938       
    My two cents:

    1. I don't want to replace the unit lines with orcs. Orcs are an alternative, giving four separate units, which makes them interesting. If we reskin the human units as orcs, it ruins the uniqueness of orcs, because now they are just graphics, not a gameplay choice. If the pikeman is an orc, what good is the black orc chieftain.

    Evil men is simple enough, I don't understand why this concept is so impossible for people to understand. The movies, for visual purposes, overplayed the amount of orcs, but this isn't a movie mod.

    I've been giving in on a lot of stuff, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about and don't want to change. It doesn't make sense with the lore, with gameplay, or anything really.

    2. I don't really mind if Jorgito replaces my troll, but I think his looks actually more like a stone troll than a cave troll, so either the name should get changed or there could be two varieties.

    3. Jorgito, I appreciate all the units (and they are excellent), but it would help a lot if you would make the units we actually need. The unique units don't need reskins, so please don't make them. I think my units are good too. Even if you prefer your own I've put years into this mod and I'd rather something I made stayed.

    There are a lot of units that just have beta or cut and paste graphics, or AoK graphics like skirmishers, etc. Why don't you focus on these? It help improve the mod.

    I'd just as soon see any of the 3d modelled units (whether by me or you) stay as is, and focus on the ones that are cut and paste or aok units.

    That said, I do love the new units, except the orcs replacing the humans. I still hate that idea.

    EDIT: not trying to discourage you from making units, Jorgito, I just don't want you overwriting all my hard work. Otherwise I'll have to release all my unused units as a graphic pack or something. :P

    And I agree your new units look perfect. I especially love the new black orcs.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king

    [This message has been edited by Matt LiVecchi (edited 03-17-2013 @ 11:30 PM).]

    Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-17-13 10:59 PM CT (US)     1850 / 3938       
    FYI - Angmar will now have two unique trolls: Matt's Cave Troll, and Jorgito's new cave troll which will be called the Stone Troll
    lol, that's just what I suggested.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
    Mr Wednesday
    Cavalier
    (id: matty12345)
    posted 03-17-13 11:17 PM CT (US)     1851 / 3938       
    ...Also, Pulkit, how mad at me would you be if I told you I was fooling around with rivendell buildings? :P



    It was just a test, I probably won't go through with this as it's just more work for you and you've already got a log jam of work. But maybe in a future update, who knows.

    "And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
    Pulkit
    Squire
    posted 03-17-13 11:22 PM CT (US)     1852 / 3938       
    I would be mad if you didn't finish them on time for this update.

    Infact, I will already get mad and ask you to make alternate Rivendell walls and gates to add to your burden, please! I'm adding a tech called "Floodwaters" that allows Rivendell to:

    a) build Walls and Gates on water <- this is where the new wall graphics can fit in, and I'm hoping I can coordinate with Kor to see how feasible/balanced this is
    b) build water towers that do the flood attack <- not too sure about this, should be costly/slow to build

    Both built by the Fishing Ship.

    P.S: Yep, that building looks godly. :)

    Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it

    [This message has been edited by Pulkit (edited 03-17-2013 @ 11:23 PM).]

    Jorgito_aqua27
    Squire
    posted 03-17-13 11:41 PM CT (US)     1853 / 3938       
    @Pullkit:

    1- Dam it i should pay more attention to the forums, or we should coordinate some kind of chat so nobody waste his time.

    Here was the "new version" of the olog hai:



    so... i could remove the armor in the chest for the mountain troll and add some kind of crossed belts to suggest the armor in the shoulder? should i render this new olog hai just in case you wanna use it for a special troll for angmar or something?

    2-Concerning mordor humans, i know what you mean, some kind of cheap looking guys with axes with not great armour, but using leather, chainmail and fur.

    ___

    I will like to have some feedback i dont mind to redo stuffs that doesnt look good or doesnt fit so i will keep posting it.

    ___________________

    @Matt:

    1- I am not against evil humans for mordor, what i dont like is that they look like aok units thats all. And i still consider that civs like mordor should have orcs/uruks as main choice and humans as alternative. I agree however to see Angmar as a main based civ with humans since the witchking take under countrol rhudaur.

    Also i think that the orc pikeman and swordman looks waaaay to different to the new black orcs.

    2- I dont want to replace anything that is already made (new stuffs not aok graphics and copy/paste) and working good the only reason that i made a cave troll was because i was doing trolls and wanted a more random variant if you see they look like made of stone, thats all, i dont think that every single troll will need a chain in the neck like the movie

    Like i said the model that you made is amazing and looks like the movie but i dont like to much the walking and attacking animations, that is a personal taste you dont need to change it.

    3- It would be way to easier for me if i get a list of the units that need urgent new graphics and a road list for future changes so i can focus on those first and also do what i am doing of giving unique graphics to everything.

    If i check again the only thing that i made again was a cave troll, the rest are my own old graphics being replaced and aok units or did i made something else?

    If i did that, i am really sorry my intention was never to replace anything that you made, you need to understand that i came back recently after all this years and i am pretty lost concerning what is needed or not and i have no clue about who makes some of the new units or if they are civ 3 untis or whatever, i am just doing blind stuffs and if you guys wanna use it fine and if you dont is fine too i have 0 problem with that.

    _______________

    Good to see that you are doing new stuffs and that looks amazing

    Is nice to see you are posting screens again, is pretty discouraging to be the only one.
    Pulkit
    Squire
    posted 03-17-13 11:52 PM CT (US)     1854 / 3938       
    List of units we don't have:

    1. Wainrider Chariot with an archer on top
    2. Ent


    List of units that can be improved:

    1. Balchoth Raider (cavalry)
    2. Rhudaur Swordsman
    3. Rhudaur Archer
    4. Dunlending Warrior
    5. Dunlending Archer
    6. Variag of Khand
    7. Brigand (Rhovanion UU, cavalry archer)


    I'll add more if I remember.

    Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
    Jorgito_aqua27
    Squire
    posted 03-18-13 00:06 AM CT (US)     1855 / 3938       
    Allright Pulkit i will focus on those, i may get a preview for you tomorrow so we can discuss how do you want them to look. If you have some pics already of what you want post them so i can start working on those now.

    Concerning Mordor armies:

    http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Mordor

    I know is not 100% accurate but that page, the movies, and also the books says that at least mordor have his main army based on orcs, the humans should be the alternative like the alliances system or cheaper human units like you did with the snagas. The main army of mordor shouldnt be based on humans, sorry but i cant find the sense on that.
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