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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Mod Design and Discussion » Tales of Middle Earth - Version 0.8.13 Released!
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Topic Subject:Tales of Middle Earth - Version 0.8.13 Released!
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Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 08-18-12 03:58 AM CT (US)         



Complete Visual Recreation of Middle Earth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Unique Gameplay to recreate the War of the Ring


Fully Functional and Engaging Mulltiplayer Experience . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Enhanced Scenario Editor for Designers


• Choose from one of 18 unique factions.
- Guide the wise and fair elves - Lindon, Rivendell, Mirkwood, Eregion, and Lothlorien.
- Fall under the sway of the Shadow with Angmar, Mordor, Isengard, Dol Guldur, or Minas Morgul.
- Place your hope in the Men of the West with Arnor, Gondor, and fabled Numenor of old.
- Ride with the Native Men of Rohan, Rhovanion, Harad, Umbar, or Rhun.


• Battle on new random maps based on real Middle Earth locations.

• Research countless new technologies and decide the path of your race with faction choices.

• Enjoy the rich world of Middle Earth as presented by one of the largest modifications ever produced for Age of Empires II.

• Create that LOTR campaign you always had in mind or play online against a friend!



Current Version: (Version 0.8.13) :: Release Date: 9/15/18


Current Development Notes:
Change Log - Find out what's changed in the latest version.

The current version of Tales of Middle Earth is fully playable. Later versions will improve balance, eliminate bugs, and possibly implement some final features. If you would like to report a bug or suggest changes, please leave a comment below or add a bug report to the github page.

NOTE: As Tales of Middle Earth is currently in a pre-release version, we ask that you bear with any discovered bugs or imbalanced stats for units or technologies. Please report any issues, and we will work hard on solutions.


The road goes ever on and on...

[This message has been edited by Mr Wednesday (edited 11-17-2018 @ 00:41 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Thessil
Squire
posted 02-13-15 03:07 PM CT (US)     3116 / 3924       
Also wanted to mention, even though it's likely pretty obvious, that I'm going to represent the cavernous and underground structures of middle earth by simply filling large spaces with rocks, and clearing caverns and tunnels in them. It works great for both AoE2 and GB, and if you create structures/objects that can help fill that motif, like say carved pillars, wooden scaffolding, etc, as well as things like natural cave formations like stalagmites, pitfalls, etc, people will be able to make some really convincing underground locations.

Thanks again for listening and I apologise if anything I post is either already implemented or redundant.
AFFA the Cleric
Squire
posted 02-13-15 04:46 PM CT (US)     3117 / 3924       
About caves envivorrements, there are some Stalagmites in Star wars galactic battlegrounds, and maybe to implement caves in game map uou can try to rapresent these caves like the first mission of Aoe III, just a suggest, nothingmore...

However really really good progress for this mod, I really love it and cant wait to play it! Thans to all the TOME mod team!
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-13-15 05:36 PM CT (US)     3118 / 3924       
What is the percentage you would say on the Mod is completed?
Super hard to say. If you were to say like 97% you'd probably be not that far off.

Though it's been a 4+ year job, so it's almost impossible to say exactly. It will still be a while unfortunately.
Also wanted to mention, even though it's likely pretty obvious, that I'm going to represent the cavernous and underground structures of middle earth by simply filling large spaces with rocks, and clearing caverns and tunnels in them. It works great for both AoE2 and GB, and if you create structures/objects that can help fill that motif, like say carved pillars, wooden scaffolding, etc, as well as things like natural cave formations like stalagmites, pitfalls, etc, people will be able to make some really convincing underground locations.
I have a dwarven pillar in there, Balin's tomb, maybe a couple other things. I can definitely add a few more. I suggest once we have the next version all ready to go we can have a round of brainstorming to see what's missing.
About caves envivorrements, there are some Stalagmites in Star wars galactic battlegrounds, and maybe to implement caves in game map uou can try to rapresent these caves like the first mission of Aoe III, just a suggest, nothingmore...
Definitely can do some stalagmites. We have the Moria and Erebor entrances as well.

I've come up with a concept for the dragon projectile. This is one angle of it. Keep in mind the 'tail' on the fireball will be coming from the dragon, which is flying. So it's sort of falling from the sky. The explosion is a death graphic for the projectile. I think it gives a more terrifying sense of destruction. With a nice blast radius it should give the impression of the dragon burning whole areas.



And yes, the explosion is a recolored version of the hawk explosion, minus the first two frames. Thoughts?

Just can't set it replay, as the fireball can't be shrinking and growing.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king

[This message has been edited by Mr Wednesday (edited 02-13-2015 @ 05:37 PM).]

Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 02-13-15 05:55 PM CT (US)     3119 / 3924       
It looks really nice! My biggest complaint is that the lighting contrast is much greater on the explosion than the fireball in flight.
Jan dc
Squire
(id: Den cekke)
posted 02-13-15 06:07 PM CT (US)     3120 / 3924       
Nice job Matt (and Pulkit, even though we're yet to see your amazing work)! Also congratz with the next step in your life Pulkit . If I may make a suggestion, wait with putting all that eye candy in. First release the main mod and then release the extra content in a patch.
AFFA the Cleric
Squire
posted 02-13-15 06:47 PM CT (US)     3121 / 3924       
Definitely can do some stalagmites. We have the Moria and Erebor entrances as well.
I had no doubt about this, you are a great modders team!
_____________________________________________________________________________________

However, I don't know if it can be done, please delete this post if necessary!

Here I tried to convert some flames from baldur's gate kind of game, maybe these are useful for you! (Iwith this offer I don't want to offend yours really skillfull team modders, obviously)

Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-13-15 11:11 PM CT (US)     3122 / 3924       
Hmm,



Which version do people like better?

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
Knaber
Squire
posted 02-14-15 02:03 AM CT (US)     3123 / 3924       
The version in Cleric's post!
John the Late
Knight
posted 02-14-15 02:17 AM CT (US)     3124 / 3924       
I think that it needs to be seen in action to be compared.
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 02-14-15 06:33 AM CT (US)     3125 / 3924       
I agree with John. Outside of the game though, I think your second version is better, though the size of the first is nice.

Nice Argonath statues btw

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
qaz123tfg
Squire
posted 02-14-15 01:45 PM CT (US)     3126 / 3924       
Matt,

I like your initial fire creation better than the one from Baldurs Gate. The reason is yours has a wider area of effect, and also the Baldurs Gate fire has too much black and dark red and oranges.
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-14-15 01:47 PM CT (US)     3127 / 3924       
I'll throw them both in the dropbox and Pulkit can choose which he prefers.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
John the Late
Knight
posted 02-14-15 02:11 PM CT (US)     3128 / 3924       
I also happen to generally like the first one more, but it can be a problem that it is so easily recognisable and quickly repetitive (the characteristic saboteur explosion shape that is always the same). However I don't expect dragons to appear in that large amounts, so it might not be a big issue.
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-14-15 02:27 PM CT (US)     3129 / 3924       
The petard is actually different. That's the hawk explosion. What it lacks in originality it does make up for in being a really really good graphic. One of the better ones ES made. But I like both.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
John the Late
Knight
posted 02-14-15 03:01 PM CT (US)     3130 / 3924       
There are actually two suicide bombers, the petard being one and the saboteur (hero tab in editor) the second.

The petard indeed has a different explosion (which I like for fitting from every angle, unlike the saboteur/hawk one. Which I also like, but which can look weird if you see it all the time. )
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 02-14-15 04:32 PM CT (US)     3131 / 3924       
The saboteur uses the same explosion graphic as the petard, though.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
John the Late
Knight
posted 02-14-15 04:45 PM CT (US)     3132 / 3924       
Really? I'm pretty sure it doesn't :s

Maybe I was using an edited data file lol
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 02-14-15 05:14 PM CT (US)     3133 / 3924       
They definitely are the same in vanilla AoK, AoC, and AoF. I can't blame you for using an edited data fila, though- it seems nicer to have a larger explosion for the saboteur when it is such a far more devastating unit!

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
Rowel
Squire
posted 02-14-15 05:23 PM CT (US)     3134 / 3924       
Hi!

I'm a follower of this great mod. I really admire your excellent work at this modpack.
So... I would like to contribute.
I'm not a data modder (yet...) or a graphic designer so I had nothing to do for you... But when I saw Thessil's post, i wished to comment.

Why not to have Erebor as a civ in the game?

You, Mr Wednesday, answered that the dwarves haven't a complete military (no cavalry, archery etc...).
(...)
Second, dwarves field an incomplete military. They do not really field cavalry or archers, which means they need to have their ranks filled with allies to make a complete civ. Dale archers or the like are typical candidates, but this ends up giving a dwarf civ that is half dwarf, half not. Much the same effect can be had by playing Eregion or Rhovanion, and going with Dwarven Alliance. The buildings 'look dwarvish', but still can be above ground buildings, the player gets access to a dwarven wonder, dwarven heroes, and dwarven infantry, as well as dwarven techs, while still having a complete civ with archers, cavalry, farming, etc.
(...)
They could be a civ like the mesoamericans in the original version, without cavalry.

About the archery, they could have crossbows. I imagine the dwarves as brilliant engineers, so, why not crossbows?
Being great engineers they could have one of the strongest siege weapons as a civ bonus.

They could have axemen instead of swordsmen with or without different stats, maybe a bonus against infantry.

They can have spearmen like every other civ, just create a new graphic. (Lol it's not so easy...)

What I'm trying to conceive is a mixing of the AoFE Slavs and the Aztecs:
A tanky unique unit, strong infantry and an even stronger siege equipment.

The only need of mercenary or "alliance" units, even minimal, would be a raiding unit, to replace the cavalry
And the human villagers, that can come from Dale.

And finally, Erebor is the mighty Dwarf Kingdom! They cannot be forgot :P


Thanks for reading!

P.S.: Sorry if the comment seems to be arrogant, it's not my intention. My english is so poor... I'm still learning english.
AFFA the Cleric
Squire
posted 02-14-15 06:44 PM CT (US)     3135 / 3924       
Yes, I agree with you rowel, the dwarfs can be a like-aztec civ, but if you played the official lotr game, Battle for middle earth (especially the 2nd with the expansion) you probably notice that the dwarf use carts which act as a cavalry-tanky unit, then, about archers, it's right to think about dwarf crossbowmen, but as far as I know no crossbow are used in the movies, except the uruk-hai crossbowmen during the siege of Helm's deep.About it maybe the dwarf can get archers units (like Dale's Archers) via special or unique tecnology... just wondering... and obviously I know that this answer is not for me, however just my point of view.
_____________________________________________________

Now concerning the dragon's fire, I put down a sketch for how my fire shoud appear in game:

[This message has been edited by AFFA the Cleric (edited 02-14-2015 @ 06:46 PM).]

Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-14-15 08:37 PM CT (US)     3136 / 3924       
Hi!

I'm a follower of this great mod. I really admire your excellent work at this modpack.
So... I would like to contribute.
I'm not a data modder (yet...) or a graphic designer so I had nothing to do for you... But when I saw Thessil's post, i wished to comment.

Why not to have Erebor as a civ in the game?

You, Mr Wednesday, answered that the dwarves haven't a complete military (no cavalry, archery etc...).
(...)
Second, dwarves field an incomplete military. They do not really field cavalry or archers, which means they need to have their ranks filled with allies to make a complete civ. Dale archers or the like are typical candidates, but this ends up giving a dwarf civ that is half dwarf, half not. Much the same effect can be had by playing Eregion or Rhovanion, and going with Dwarven Alliance. The buildings 'look dwarvish', but still can be above ground buildings, the player gets access to a dwarven wonder, dwarven heroes, and dwarven infantry, as well as dwarven techs, while still having a complete civ with archers, cavalry, farming, etc.
(...)
They could be a civ like the mesoamericans in the original version, without cavalry.

About the archery, they could have crossbows. I imagine the dwarves as brilliant engineers, so, why not crossbows?
Being great engineers they could have one of the strongest siege weapons as a civ bonus.

They could have axemen instead of swordsmen with or without different stats, maybe a bonus against infantry.

They can have spearmen like every other civ, just create a new graphic. (Lol it's not so easy...)

What I'm trying to conceive is a mixing of the AoFE Slavs and the Aztecs:
A tanky unique unit, strong infantry and an even stronger siege equipment.

The only need of mercenary or "alliance" units, even minimal, would be a raiding unit, to replace the cavalry
And the human villagers, that can come from Dale.

And finally, Erebor is the mighty Dwarf Kingdom! They cannot be forgot :P
Alright. This has to be the least popular decision we have made concerning this mod.

For the sake of being fair, I've put the effort into brainstorming a dwarf civ. They would replace Eregion. I'm not saying we will include them. This is just to explore how realistic the option is. I'm more than happy to make some unit and building graphics. However, it would need to make sense, and Pulkit would have to agree to the considerable workload increase. But I figure I owe it to you guys to brainstorm it at least.

Civ: Erebor
Special Features
Builders work 30% faster (except on Wonders)
Gold Miners work 25% faster
Mining upgrades free
Infantry +10% HP's, +1 LOS
Wonder: The Lonely Mountain



War Hall
Town Militia - Man of Arms - Foot Knight - Sword-thain
Archer - Marksman - Cúthalion

Esquires
Longbow
Steel Bow



Muster Hall
Spearman - Pikeman - Phalanx
Javelineer - Skirmisher

Company of the Guard



Stable
Scout - Errand-rider - Vanguard
Knight - Heavy Knight

Bivouac
Company of Knights




Castle
Dwarflord
Dale Archer (with Dale Alliance)
Kingsguard (with Sons of Durin)
Banner Carrier


Sons of Durin
Dale Alliance




Siege Workshop
Battering Ram - Capped Ram - Siege Ram
Catapult - Heavy Catapult
Ballista
Trebuchet

Siege Engineers



Towers
Watch Tower - Guard Tower - Keep - Bastion



Wonder
Wizard
Peasant-in-Arms
Heroes



Some notes on the civ:
1.Villagers build dwarven mines, not farms.
2. Villagers cost gold not food. Most units are heavy gold cost. Sheep/cows only renewable food source for Erebor.
3. Phalanx is an Erebor only unit, heavy dwarf spearman with large shield, +1 range.
4. Bastion is a very strong 2x2 tile tower with increased attack and cost.
5. Dale Alliance, gives dale archers, possibly light cavalry or horselords. Possibly allows lumbercamp techs if Erebor is not given those to start.
6. Sons of Durin is the dwarf elitist choice. Siege equipment +10% HP's. Dwarven mines last longer. Allows access to Kingsguard, the elite bodyguard of King Dain Ironfoot. Dwarvish infantry with high pierce armor.
7. Buildings would be designed to look mostly like entrances carved into the rock, much like Petra in real life.

Overall it's doable. People would have to be willing to put up with regular villagers, but it could work. It would be a ton of extra work. However, I have some time off and could really make a dent in it. It's more down to whether pulkit feels he can balance this civ, and if it matches the quality of the rest of the civs.

Thoughts?

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king

[This message has been edited by Mr Wednesday (edited 02-14-2015 @ 08:43 PM).]

Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-14-15 08:57 PM CT (US)     3137 / 3924       
Stuff I forgot to address. Docks, ships?

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 02-14-15 09:15 PM CT (US)     3138 / 3924       
I just got home, so I now have access to my collection of Tolkien books (LoTR, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin). I'm looking through them at the moment.

With regard to the Dwarven question:

-I don't trust the various LoTR websites/Wikipedia because the sources they draw from most consistently are the film adaptations and the video games. They're a good place to take a cursory look at to find references that may lead me to passages in the books, but if I cannot locate source material in the books, (and the movies only to a certain extent, mostly graphically) then I do not consider it canon.

The Hobbit:
-There are only a few mentions I can find of Dwarven archers in The Hobbit. Beorn gives the company bows and arrows (p. 122) before they set out for Mirkwood. In the forest they waste many arrows before finally shooting a squirrel, and miss shooting a deer.
-At the parley at the Mountain, Thorin shouts "Begone now ere our arrows fly!" (p. 238) and later shoots an arrow at an envoy (p.238).
-The Dwarven army of Dain Ironfoot "wielded heavy two-handed mattocks; but each of them had also a short broad sword at his side and a roundshield slung at his back" (p. 249).
-On page 250, a line reads "Arrows came forth [from Erebor] as soon as they [Bard's messengers] were within shot." However, once Thorin and the rest of the company bursts out of the Mountain to join the battle against the Goblins and Wargs, Thorin is described as wielding an axe. The weaponry of the rest of the company is not mentioned, but I would assume that they all wielded axes, swords, or hammers like their kin.


RotK Appendices:
-At the Battle of Azanulbizar, the Dwarves are described as wielding mattocks (p. 1049) and Dain Ironfoot slays Azog with a "red axe" (p. 1049).


The Silmarillion:
-Telchar of Nogrod and his Dwarves forge many axes, spears, and swords for Thingol (p. 104).
-At the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, the Dwarves wield axes against the Dragon Glaurung and Azaghal stabs him with a knife in the underbelly, severely wounding him.


In short, there is very little canonical mention of Dwarves being anything other than infantry (and none in the movies either, other than Kili being an archer in the Hobbit film trilogy. I don't think it would be canonically incorrect to create Dwarf archers- given the passages in The Hobbit mentioned above, it seems that Dwarves would use archery when hunting and defending their strongholds (actually, I also recall a passage in FotR when the Fellowship is in Moria and Tolkien describes the Bridge of Khazad-dum, saying that the Dwarven style was to build thin bridges so as to only allow attackers to cross in a single file line and thus be exposed to archers and also find it hard to mount any sort of attack over the bridge). However, it seems that in a pitched battle (such as Five Armies or Azanulbizar), the Dwarves were wholly infantry wielding swords, axes, spears, and shields (and of course famous for their armor and helmets). There is no mention of Dwarven siege equipment (though it can be inferred that due to their skill as craftsmen they would make some damn good siege engines)! There is no mention whatsoever of Dwarven cavalry (unless you count Dain Ironfoot riding a war pig and Thorin & co. riding oversized goats in the third Hobbit film)

In terms of gameplay, I suppose it would be possible to implement a Dwarven faction that is centered on infantry (similar to the Goths in AoK). I could see their archers and javelineers having more armor and being slower (to represent Dwarven armor) but having less attack (to represent being less skilled at archery than basically everyone else), and their siege being decent, as well as having strong fortifications. I cannot speak for their navy, however, as there is none to speak of

However, I think the question that must be asked is what could be achieved by adding a separate Dwarvish civ that is not already achieved by the current alliance technology system that Matt and Pulkit have in place? I'm not so sure if there is a good enough answer to this to justify a separate Dwarvish civ.


While previewing my post I just saw Matt's post and I think the model you proposed would work. It seems especially nice, actually, considering how many Elvish civs are in the mod, so swapping out Eregion wouldn't hurt too much I guess. I think that if you really feel up to it, then go for it, but if it's too much of a hassle then it's not too big of a deal.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
John the Late
Knight
posted 02-14-15 09:15 PM CT (US)     3139 / 3924       
I kind of flinched of excitement when reading your post.

Sounds like a great concept to me, although my knowledge of LotR lore is restricted to the 3 books and the Hobbit, so I can't evaluate the importance of Eregion, after all, 19 civs are not a problem, modding-wise.

But already 1 thing: Why not have the build rate bonus work on wonders? Treadmill crane does so, too, and I guess dwarvens are great craftsmen on large scale as well.

I'm wondering about Pulkit's opinion on your idea.

One gameplay concern I have is the lack of farms. Thanks to the reseed queue, they aren't maintenance heavy, unlike animal breeding. But maybe it could work, who knows. (Would require animals breadable somewhere else and from the first age onwards.)

@Sam: I think it's also a bit about the flavour of the civ. Eregion is a normal civ that happens to have 2 dwarven units after an alliance tech, and while this should theoretically be sufficient, it does not really gove a feeling of them being represented much. Which isn't wrong, concerning the LotR books, but one can't deny that they have their charm.

I didn't ever ask for such a civ to be made but now I'm pretty interested.

[This message has been edited by John the Late (edited 02-14-2015 @ 09:23 PM).]

HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 02-14-15 10:14 PM CT (US)     3140 / 3924       
Totally agreed! If Matt and Pulkit can make it work and are willing to, then I'd support it

I'm no modding expert, but wouldn't it be possible to change out farms for Dwarven mines for the Dwarves and have them keep their functionality? Assuming that is possible, then not having farms for food wouldn't be a problem, considering that most Dwarven units would probably cost gold and wood (that is, assuming the cost for villagers and some other units can be swapped around to gold as well). Food could still be used for some units and techs.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
Seonid
Squire
posted 02-14-15 10:45 PM CT (US)     3141 / 3924       
I played around with farms during one phase of my Wheel of Time mod, but I wasn't able to get anything useful out of it. (I was trying to make a gold-giving farm, like the AoE3 plantation, but that failed)

It might be possible if you are just planning on replacing the farm, but it isn't (as far as I was able to find) possible to add a new farm-like building. Too much hard-coded stuff, I guess.
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-14-15 11:11 PM CT (US)     3142 / 3924       
Pretty sure farms can be swapped into giving gold. Then just change the dwarf farmer to have the mining graphic, and change the farm graphic into an excavation, and you're good to go. 'Reseeds' could be scrapped in favor of making mines more expensive and longer lasting than farms.

Food would essentially replace gold as the rare resource for the civ then, used for upgrades and techs. Again, might be tricky to balance, and every other civ plays very much standard compared to this. Makes me wary of the idea, but Pulkit is the data guy. He would know better.

From a graphics standpoint, I can tinker around and see if a compromise can be made between an underground civ and above ground buildings. I have some ideas.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
HerrdesUruks
Squire
posted 02-14-15 11:41 PM CT (US)     3143 / 3924       
As far as "farms" you could use the idea from Galactic Battlegrounds of the Nursery, in which you would garrison captive animals and they would give a steady stream of food.
For this you could rename it the Forge or something and garrison villagers into it to "forge weapons and armour to trade for food"; in reality of course it would just give, as said before, a steady stream of food that could be increased with different techs. Now I don't know how feasible that would be but I'm just throwing it out there.
Highwing
Squire
posted 02-15-15 00:02 AM CT (US)     3144 / 3924       
There is an AoE/RoR mod, called Zepher's Mod, that has Wood, Stone, and Gold farms.
HerrdesUruks
Squire
posted 02-15-15 00:32 AM CT (US)     3145 / 3924       
Also, as far as ships go, the only thing that might make sense is making an alliance tech with Esgaroth for fishing, trading, and transport vessels then, perhaps, another alliance tech with the Elves for warships.

Regarding the archery question, as HockeySam18 stated, it would not be beyond the realm of logic for Dwarven archers to exist and, as he goes on to say, to be somewhat poor in shooting. (Though I imagine any creature in Middle-earth, as in Medieval Europe, would be able to become a skilled archer with enough practice.) But as I say I think he's on the right tack.

As for cavalry the only sensible thing, I think, might be to, again, have an alliance cavalry tech or just plain old mercenary horsemen as I believe (now that I think on it) Rowel suggested. Or there could be a unit like the vanilla Eagle Warrior to act as some sort of light cavalry.

[This message has been edited by HerrdesUruks (edited 02-15-2015 @ 00:38 AM).]

Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-15-15 01:01 AM CT (US)     3146 / 3924       
I definitely don't want to get into that. Four or five alliances to flesh out a civ means what I always thought, that they aren't a full civ.

If Erebor is going to work, it would have to work by being really good in a few areas. The way I laid it out, they would have dominant infantry. They can neutralize cavalry with the phalanx better than anyone, and they could decently neutralize archers with the Kingsguard unit. This leaves them somewhat vulnerable to hit and run tactics from chariot and horse archers, and to siege equipment. Alternatively, the could go dale alliance which would protect them better against cavalry archers, but cost them some of their ability to counter foot archers. However, every civ need some weaknesses, and at least the policies would both be of use in the right situation.

If we can't balance Erebor without filling their ranks with men and elves, there is no point. Eregion is already a perfectly good elf/dwarf civ combo.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
Pulkit
Squire
posted 02-15-15 01:47 AM CT (US)     3147 / 3924       
Great ideas! However, there are a couple issues with introducing dwarves in addition to those Matt mentioned:

1. We can't introduce Erebor without considering the other Dwarven realms. There are four in Middle-earth: Khazad-dum, Blue Mountains and the Iron Hills. Even if we ignore the last two, we still have two civs to introduce.

2. We'll need to decouple Eregion and Rhovanion from dwarven influence. A lot of other civs also have dwarven alliance, units and techs here and there so that might leave several holes in other tech trees.

I'll prefer sticking to the current plan of Eregion and Rhovanion civs. After release, we can always introduce the new Dwarven kingdoms as additional civs and rework the existing ones to rid them of dwarven influence.

Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
HerrdesUruks
Squire
posted 02-15-15 02:06 AM CT (US)     3148 / 3924       
Very sensible and hobbit-like of you, Mr. Pulkit! (Congrats by the way)
Thessil
Squire
posted 02-15-15 02:29 AM CT (US)     3149 / 3924       
It should be possible to add Animal Nursey functionality to the game, and it would help make dwarven civs feasable, as well as expand on the game as a whole in a healthy, non-game breaking way.

Supposedly they mostly relied on trade with other civs to obtain food, but keeping domesticated animals wouldn't be too much of a leap. Perhaps if they can't generate food, they could get better deals from buying it?
John the Late
Knight
posted 02-15-15 05:15 AM CT (US)     3150 / 3924       
No it's not, Thessil. This functionality does not exist in AoK code, the engine in SWGB is slightly more advanced. And relic gold production is hardcoded.

While I don't think that dwarves in other civs should lose a problem (Gondor and Isengard can have Rohan allies too), I like the idea of additions after the release.


And on the farm thing: I wouldn't replace that, it's better to make a new unit with the intended functionality. Seonid, what exactly did you try? I think it should be possible to make a new farm, but not by usinf tha vanilla farm as a base but by modifying another building to your needs.

[This message has been edited by John the Late (edited 02-15-2015 @ 05:18 AM).]

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