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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Mod Design and Discussion » Tales of Middle Earth - Version 0.8.13 Released!
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Topic Subject:Tales of Middle Earth - Version 0.8.13 Released!
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Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 08-18-12 03:58 AM CT (US)         



Complete Visual Recreation of Middle Earth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Unique Gameplay to recreate the War of the Ring


Fully Functional and Engaging Mulltiplayer Experience . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Enhanced Scenario Editor for Designers


• Choose from one of 18 unique factions.
- Guide the wise and fair elves - Lindon, Rivendell, Mirkwood, Eregion, and Lothlorien.
- Fall under the sway of the Shadow with Angmar, Mordor, Isengard, Dol Guldur, or Minas Morgul.
- Place your hope in the Men of the West with Arnor, Gondor, and fabled Numenor of old.
- Ride with the Native Men of Rohan, Rhovanion, Harad, Umbar, or Rhun.


• Battle on new random maps based on real Middle Earth locations.

• Research countless new technologies and decide the path of your race with faction choices.

• Enjoy the rich world of Middle Earth as presented by one of the largest modifications ever produced for Age of Empires II.

• Create that LOTR campaign you always had in mind or play online against a friend!



Current Version: (Version 0.8.13) :: Release Date: 9/15/18


Current Development Notes:
Change Log - Find out what's changed in the latest version.

The current version of Tales of Middle Earth is fully playable. Later versions will improve balance, eliminate bugs, and possibly implement some final features. If you would like to report a bug or suggest changes, please leave a comment below or add a bug report to the github page.

NOTE: As Tales of Middle Earth is currently in a pre-release version, we ask that you bear with any discovered bugs or imbalanced stats for units or technologies. Please report any issues, and we will work hard on solutions.


The road goes ever on and on...

[This message has been edited by Mr Wednesday (edited 11-17-2018 @ 00:41 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 01-10-13 09:27 AM CT (US)     666 / 3913       
Another thing that needs balancing:
Marchwardens (Lothlórien) are definitely overpowered. They remind me of pre-nerf Saethwyr in Age of Chivalry (with which I already took down cavalry armies before they could come close) - however Marchwardens are even stronger, iirc.

They get 14 range while most civs don't even get a third blacksmith technology (Black Arrows) to get their castles to 11 range (most castles are stuck with 8+2) so they are also easily outranged by basic archers (Cúth... can't spell it ) with the long-range upgrade + BS techs.

Back to the Marchwarden. One might argue that they have minimum range and that cavalry/skirmishers counter archers. I have to disagree. Long ranged archers enable tactics to easily overcome their minimum range.
There aren't many high-armour units in ToME, so there is actually no unit that could possibly come close before it is killed.

Their only downturn is that they are created at the castle, but it also only needs perhaps 2 castles to get 40-80 of them in a decent time, so that's no real problem.

_______________________________________________________

I agree that Dwarfs need some love to become special.

They are a fun unit (J. Rhys-Davies sounds) but in terms of stats offer nothing (slow, created at the castle, and no decent attack bonuses, afaik) that can't be also achieved by regular units, which can be massed from standard military buildings.
The ranger and hands of the king tech are not actually available if you just tech up in a random map game.
Hands of the King require Herblore to be researched first and are then available in the Great Years.
Rangers require the castle-tech "Rangers of the North" which is available in the Great Years. I, however, don't know what enables it. So far I suddenly found it available.

[This message has been edited by HerzogDePuce (edited 01-10-2013 @ 09:33 AM).]

Jatayu
Squire
(id: Sword_of_STORM)
posted 01-10-13 09:31 AM CT (US)     667 / 3913       
Pulkit:

I may have mentioned before, but you have a chance to do something really unique with this mod as far as unit design and balance goes.

I'll expand on this a bit. A lot of this is from Warcraft and Starcraft and Command and Conquer style games which are very different from AOE2 ( and I don't mean graphics or theme ). Infact as far as RTS games go only Rise of Nations is in the same pattern as the age series.

Let's consider faction/race design for the moment. In WC/SC/CnC/etc, all races are fundamentally different to their very core. In AOE2, all races are basically the same. The only thing different about them is the unique unit and civ specific bonuses, and late game ( ie imperial ) there are some upgrades only certain civs can get.

Unit design is again a big difference. In Aoe2, an un upgraded militia is virtually worthless. Not so the case in other games, where tier 1 units often form the bulk of their army even in the late game, with a few supporting units as 'high tech options'.

TOME meets this half way on both counts. All the civs have their common units, but they also have a whole host of different units, and there are a lot of expensive techs.

IMO there's a lot of scope for improvement, keeping the following in mind

faction design:
1. A faction's unique units or techs should be useful, and should not be overshadowed by the standard units.
2. A faction should have some uniqueness or flavor to it. In AOK, a large part of it was accomplished by civ specific bonuses. Rivendell has a big problem in this regard. There's nothing unique about this civ except the UU ( currently ).
3. The faction should have a weakness

unit design:
1. The unit should be useful, in terms of cost effectiveness and when it is available in the game
2. The unit should not overlap in it's role with another unit of the similar nature
3. The unit should have a weakness.

Some comments about current state of the game and suggestions ( as an example )

faction: Dol Guldur
-The stable currently has no real use for this civ, so why not train trolls from it instead of castle?
-Dol Guldur is quite unique as it is
-It does not have any special anti infantry attacker. This can be a weakness.
-overall DG is a well designed faction

unit: Dwarf lords ( eregion )
-Both of them overlap with each other's role, and that of the infantry UU, and swordthains
-They're really slow
-They are too expensive for the feudal age
-overall badly designed

Suggestions:
-I like the idea of having a high tech option in the game as opposed to masses of spam units. So I suggest keeping them in the game in the feudal age castle, and lower the tech cost a bit, but not by much ( say 600/500 )
-In order to compensate, the units have to be really good to justify getting them in feudal. I suggest buffing their armor and health, so even castle age units with an upgrade advantage will still only be even with them
-In castle age give them a speed upgrade ( or some other indirect buff rather than a straight upgraded unit )
-Make one of them anti infantry and the other anti cavalry, so you don't have both units basically doing the same thing. Or make one a ranged unit.

,
Jatayu O===|¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯/
`
Battle of Saraighat, 1671|Atlantis, the Lost Realm|AOE Roman Modpack|My profile
ि
StormWind Studios
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 01-10-13 09:36 AM CT (US)     668 / 3913       
Okay, I figured I would compile a master list of all the graphics I would like for a final version. This will give me a list to whittle down, and everyone else one last chance to beg for something they want. I don't know if it will all get finished, but here's hoping.

1. Complete set of Harad Buildings
2. Complete set of Rhun Buildings (assuming Carter makes them)
3. Hero graphics: Arwen, Galadriel, Boromir, Gollum, Witch King
4. Unit Graphics: Warg Rider, Fell Beast, Nazgul (foot), Wainrider, Smaug, Hobbit(s), Possible replacement for Rhovanion UU graphics.
5. New houses for Mirkwood (pulkit), Rivendell (Agamemnon), Lothlorien (me)
6. Assorted Editor objects (no real limit or specific list).

Crap. That's another whole mod basically.

Finishing all that by the end of January seems really optimistic, and even if I did Pulkit would need a while to implement it all. I'll prioritize much of that, but between all the graphical changes, the huge bugs and balancing list, and the AI file, late February might be a more realistic completion date.

Progress on that list for those who care:
1. Harad Buildings (15%)
2. Complete set of Rhun Buildings (???)
3. Hero graphics (33%)
4. Unit Graphics: (50-60%)
5. New houses for Mirkwood (100%), Rivendell (100%), Lothlorien (5%)
6. Assorted Editor objects (80%??).

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 01-10-13 09:38 AM CT (US)     669 / 3913       
Another word to Eregion:
They're the civ that is meant to be closely related to the Dwarfs of Khazad-Dum. However, when I play them, I don't have this feeling of playing with a civ that can specialise in Dwarfs at all.
Iirc, they only get Dwarfen Warriors and Dwarf Lords and certain "dwarven technology", both something that other civs can get as well.


There is a Wizard unit in the editor. Will it get any certain use in a standard game apart from being a basic model for Gandalf and/or Saruman?
I could imagine it being another unique anti-Nazgul/anti-Balrog unit.

[This message has been edited by HerzogDePuce (edited 01-10-2013 @ 09:42 AM).]

Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 01-10-13 09:41 AM CT (US)     670 / 3913       
Rangers require the castle-tech "Rangers of the North" which is available in the Great Years. I, however, don't know what enables it. So far I suddenly found it available.
Requires fully upgraded sword line.
Iirc, they only get Dwarfen Warriors and Dwarf Lords and certain "dwarven technology", both something that other civs can get as well.
They also get dwarven buildings. There's not really a straight up dwarven civ. It wouldn't work, dwarf cavalry doesn't exist, they don't have much in the way of archery, their structures are all subterranean, they don't farm, etc. Eregion is supposed to be only heavily dwarf flavoured, and with 2 units, mostly dwarf buildings, and a few technologies, I think they work fairly well.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king

[This message has been edited by Matt LiVecchi (edited 01-10-2013 @ 09:44 AM).]

Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 01-10-13 09:51 AM CT (US)     671 / 3913       
There is a Wizard unit in the editor. Will it get any certain use in a standard game apart from being a basic model for Gandalf and/or Saruman?
I could imagine it being another unique anti-Nazgul/anti-Balrog unit.
Already trainable at the wonders. Attack bonus vs Balrogs.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 01-10-13 10:01 AM CT (US)     672 / 3913       
mostly dwarf buildings
reminds me of dwarf castles. Once you get the dwarven architecture, casltes lose their ability to attack (not sure, but I think I noticed it once) and their stats (definitely).

Speaking of buildings:
The "Arthedain" alliance (Arnor) is meant to increase building HP by 20%. Instead, however, it decreases building HP to ~20%
Already trainable at the wonders. Attack bonus vs Balrogs.
Good to know. Finally a reason to build wonders.
Carter938
Squire
posted 01-10-13 10:10 AM CT (US)     673 / 3913       
Have all of the Rhun building's deisgns done, just have to make them in sketchup.


What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!
Basse
Squire
posted 01-10-13 10:55 AM CT (US)     674 / 3913       
most overrated modpack ever that just recycles some graphics and calls itself an expansion...
Yes, but it adds 5 new civs, lot's of new gameplay features, gameplay fixes, balance, Windows 7 fixes, scenario design features and networking fixes. It's unfair to compare FE to mods like ToME and AoC, since ToME and AoC are pretty much changing the game completely, while FE builds on The Conquerors and pretty much "improves it" to better fit the competitive side of age of empires 2. I voted for FE to be mod of the year since it appeals more to me because I really like the way the original game plays and it's not as difficult to learn as ToME. But I agree, the "new" graphics aren't the best and mostly re-used from old mods.
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 01-10-13 11:35 AM CT (US)     675 / 3913       
Yes, but it adds 5 new civs, lot's of new gameplay features, gameplay fixes, balance, Windows 7 fixes, scenario design features and networking fixes. It's unfair to compare FE to mods like ToME and AoC, since ToME and AoC are pretty much changing the game completely, while FE builds on The Conquerors and pretty much "improves it" to better fit the competitive side of age of empires 2. I voted for FE to be mod of the year since it appeals more to me because I really like the way the original game plays and it's not as difficult to learn as ToME. But I agree, the "new" graphics aren't the best and mostly re-used from old mods.
I'm mostly just being petty.

I like the Incan Wonder from AoFE. The guy who designed that is awesome.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
John the Late
Knight
posted 01-10-13 11:36 AM CT (US)     676 / 3913       
@Basse:
Now take away all the Userpatch's features from AoFE and look what's left: Not very much.
Mods like ToME or AoCH take up a lot more work, and I think their creators deserve more than the ones of AoFE.
Pulkit
Squire
posted 01-10-13 02:25 PM CT (US)     677 / 3913       
I may have mentioned before, but you have a chance to do something really unique with this mod as far as unit design and balance goes.
I must confess handling the immensity of this project has left me completely saturated and exhausted, quite incapable of rationally thinking of good stats/ideas for units. There are just too many units and combinations to handle!

Therefore, I urge you to offer solutions and suggestions wherever you observe a lacklustre unit, tech or balance element.
lower the tech cost a bit, but not by much ( say 600/500 )
Agreed.
buffing their armor and health
Doing so.
Make one of them anti infantry and the other anti cavalry, so you don't have both units basically doing the same thing. Or make one a ranged unit.
Yeah, I'll make one throw axes as a ranged melee unit. That one could be anti-cav.
They're the civ that is meant to be closely related to the Dwarfs of Khazad-Dum. However, when I play them, I don't have this feeling of playing with a civ that can specialise in Dwarfs at all.
No one else gets Dwarflords, and Eregion's wonder is Dwarven as well! Note that Eregion is said to be the closest, but never uniquely, Dwarven.
Requires fully upgraded sword line.
That's an artifact of outdated tech tree structure. Nice catch. I'll fix it so that Rangers, and other things like Alliance with Harad won't depend on any unit lines.
Yes, but it adds 5 new civs, lot's of new gameplay features, gameplay fixes, balance, Windows 7 fixes, scenario design features and networking fixes.
To be fair, that sounds like peanuts to the scope of changes in ToME

But there is no denying the bulk of MP audience, which is probably what's keeping the game alive, prefers vanilla AoK (and thus AoFE) over total conversions like ToME.
late February might be a more realistic completion date.
Fall 2012 all over again

Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 01-10-13 03:03 PM CT (US)     678 / 3913       
I gotta say, Pulkit, you have an absolutely thankless job on ToME. All those countless hours devising creative technologies and well worded descriptions, figuring out how to implement all the units I design, and then making it all work. Then when it gets released, everyone just shouts "I found a bug!" or "Umbar sucks!" and you have to do it all again.

At least I get to show off my graphics. People complain about them a lot, but still.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king

[This message has been edited by Matt LiVecchi (edited 01-10-2013 @ 03:04 PM).]

Carter938
Squire
posted 01-10-13 03:19 PM CT (US)     679 / 3913       
Matt, ill need u on skype. Ive finished the Rhun stables and am going to start on the Muster Hall. I just need that Harad texture.

Here is the Easterling Watchtwoer. Im probubly going to add in a few more details. I showed it to matt and he loved it so i must be good :P



What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!

[This message has been edited by Carter938 (edited 01-10-2013 @ 05:25 PM).]

ModRocker
Squire
posted 01-10-13 04:31 PM CT (US)     680 / 3913       
the stable looks good, I feel like it is too similar to gondor but other than that it's a good design.
plank_thetank78
Squire
posted 01-10-13 05:53 PM CT (US)     681 / 3913       
I didnt know were else to post this so I thought here would be fine. Ever since i installed tome my mps has gone all funny
it wont open akx files and when i go through the slps i keep finding random units that aint used in aok or tome. One looks like a swan night without a flag and helmet and onther looks like a brown and blue horse man with a spear.

Im not blaming you guys or anything like that m just wondering has it happend to anyone else and how do i fix it?

And matt are you just making those heros or are there going to be more?

NeWzEaLaNd
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 01-10-13 06:38 PM CT (US)     682 / 3913       
On the subject of odd bugs, my timelines don't work in ToME. They show everyone had equal units at every point in the game and no longer show battle and wonder markers.
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 01-10-13 06:46 PM CT (US)     683 / 3913       
Another big post coming.

As for the bug, no ideas. maybe Pulkit might, he's been dealing with a lot of the technical issues.

As for heroes, those are the ones that need individual graphics. Legolas for example, was the basis for the Mirkwood UU design, so he doesn't need original graphics. Aragorn is a ranger, Gimli a dwarflord, etc. Most of the heroes are adaquately portrayed by an existing tome unit, plus an icon with their face, hero mode, new stats, etc.

Concerning the Rhun Tower, as I said before, I think the basic design is more or less perfect. I might have done them differently, but it looks Rhunish to me (whatever that means at this point). I think it needs some more detail, on the sides especially, but the roof is good. Maybe some golden serpent heads on the four corners of the roof, some gold inlays going up the sides of the building etc. Something to make it look less like a sketchup building and more like a rts building. That's all easy window dressing though, the hard part you have right.

Oh one other trick. In photoshop before you convert, press Ctrl + A, then copy and paste. You will now have two identical layers. Set the second one to overlay and the opacity to 50&. Merge all visible layers and convert. It will give you a bit less of the dull sketchup look, and your building will fit better with AoK (And with mine).
the stable looks good, I feel like it is too similar to gondor but other than that it's a good design.
I agree it is very similar, which is partly what I'm going for. But you are right in not wanting them too similar. To compensate, certain more unique buildings (castle, infirmary, etc) will be completely redesigned (though with the same textures), so it should be a nice mix of familiar designs and new ones.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
plank_thetank78
Squire
posted 01-10-13 07:34 PM CT (US)     684 / 3913       
Since this is a book mod will you include prince imrahil as a hero hes quite an important character in my opinion?

NeWzEaLaNd
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 01-10-13 07:37 PM CT (US)     685 / 3913       
He'd just be a Swan Knight. Not sure If pulkit has him on the list.

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
Carter938
Squire
posted 01-10-13 09:37 PM CT (US)     686 / 3913       
Finished stables and watchtower. Currently working on barracks and archery range. Will post a pic of completed stables tommorow.


What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!
Pulkit
Squire
posted 01-11-13 00:32 AM CT (US)     687 / 3913       
Ever since i installed tome my mps has gone all funny
it wont open akx files and when i go through the slps i keep finding random units that aint used in aok or tome. One looks like a swan night without a flag and helmet and onther looks like a brown and blue horse man with a spear.
Not a ToME issue. You are seeing the regular beta units in AoK. There's a whole host of them you'll find when you browse the graphics.drs slps.
On the subject of odd bugs, my timelines don't work in ToME.
Neither do mine, and I'm stumped!

Thanks Matt.
And yes, Prince Imrahil is on the list.

Carter, that tower looks good.
I just remembered you asked for the AoK tile sizes. If you haven't come across this already, here are the tile templates for all sizes, to help you base your buildings on.

Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
plank_thetank78
Squire
posted 01-11-13 04:07 AM CT (US)     688 / 3913       
Ok thanks pulkit i dont know how but i managed to get it working again

NeWzEaLaNd
Excelsior
Squire
posted 01-11-13 04:53 AM CT (US)     689 / 3913       
Question: What is the Elflord good for? I know Jatayu thought it was great, but for what? It's super slow, super low armor, super high cost, and only for 17 AP and 110 HP, but you only get 4/2, compared to the Mirdan's 8/6.
Pulkit
Squire
posted 01-11-13 05:13 AM CT (US)     690 / 3913       
So far it's an anti-Orc and anti-Nazgul unit. But yes, the armour is being raised to strengthen the unit as suggested, along with fixing some bugs (such as anti-Orc currently only means anti-Orc Warrior, but should include Black Orcs as well).

Apart from armour boost, do you have any particular solutions/suggestions?

Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it
Carter938
Squire
posted 01-11-13 05:28 AM CT (US)     691 / 3913       
@Pulkit thanks. Means alot when both of you appreciate my work.


What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!
Pulkit
Squire
posted 01-11-13 05:49 AM CT (US)     692 / 3913       


Jatayu, I forgot to ask, what was your solution to counter the Saethwyr problem in Chivalry, if you remember?
That was Herzog, my mistake.

Tales of Middle-Earth | Don't miss it

[This message has been edited by Pulkit (edited 01-11-2013 @ 06:19 AM).]

HerzogDePuce
Squire
posted 01-11-13 07:21 AM CT (US)     693 / 3913       
Jatayu, I forgot to ask, what was your solution to counter the Saethwyr problem in Chivalry, if you remember?
That was Herzog, my mistake.
Afair, it took a few attempts to balance it. Its stats were 7+7 at first - fully upgraded (the MW already comes with 9).
* The first nerf affected its base range lowered to 6 for both forms (instead of 6 => 7).
* Secondly Kor increased armour of Onagers and knightly units. Castles furthermore now receive +1 range in the last age, as far as I remember.

Suggestions for ToME
* Perhaps swordthains, rangers, and heavy knights could receive more pierce armour.
* About the basic long-range archer in ToME: I would rather give it 7 range. Iirc that's still more than most other units get, but you wouldn't be able to outrange a castle with it.
* If Lothlórien gets bonus range per age, perhaps this could be removed, so that they at least have to pay for every other range advantage.

* You said that UUs' armour stats/upgrades will be fixed, as well. Many of them already have decent pierce armour, so I assume they can hold their ground or serve as a meatshield already (especially trolls).

[This message has been edited by HerzogDePuce (edited 01-11-2013 @ 07:25 AM).]

Jatayu
Squire
(id: Sword_of_STORM)
posted 01-11-13 07:46 AM CT (US)     694 / 3913       
Therefore, I urge you to offer solutions and suggestions wherever you observe a lacklustre unit, tech or balance element.
Sure!

Here are my suggestions for Dol Guldur ( most familiar with this civ for the moment ).

>Black orcs needs to be a castle age research, and not cost so much.
>Necromancy shouldn't change the orc archer to have a gold cost. this is a problem in trash war
>I think spiders need a nerf in damage, but not too much, just make them take count as cavalry unit and they're fine.
>Buff the troll and move it to the stable. Otherwise the stable is useless
>Balrog needs to be moved to the wonder or something. It's too strong currently.

that should do it. DG is overall a well developed civ and not need many changes

,
Jatayu O===|¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯/
`
Battle of Saraighat, 1671|Atlantis, the Lost Realm|AOE Roman Modpack|My profile
ि
StormWind Studios
Basse
Squire
posted 01-11-13 10:03 AM CT (US)     695 / 3913       
@Basse:
Now take away all the Userpatch's features from AoFE and look what's left: Not very much.
Mods like ToME or AoCH take up a lot more work, and I think their creators deserve more than the ones of AoFE.
This is pretty off-topic, but UP and FE teams were working together quite a lot.
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 01-11-13 10:28 AM CT (US)     696 / 3913       
Concerning Necromancy:

1. I agree with no gold cost
2. Essentially, you are getting double the units, but with 0 train time on the second one. Sometimes it doesn't spawn (Pop full, queues full maybe) so it isn't quite double though.
3. Maybe 50% more wood and food?

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
John the Late
Knight
posted 01-11-13 11:54 AM CT (US)     697 / 3913       
but with 0 train time on the second one.
Also, the second unit is able to join the action right away with zero walk time, being spawned just where the older one died. I think it is a very powerful tech.

[This message has been edited by John the Late (edited 01-11-2013 @ 11:54 AM).]

Carter938
Squire
posted 01-11-13 04:30 PM CT (US)     698 / 3913       
Matt need u on skype


What did Pippin do when he got drunk? He started to feel Merry!
Excelsior
Squire
posted 01-11-13 05:19 PM CT (US)     699 / 3913       
The Elflord could use a speed boost, he is an elf. I read Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth a while back, and the Elflord should be decently fast. However, he should be more rare than other units, even with the increase in cost, I was still able to build hordes of Mirdan, because their armor and speed allowed me to draw them off easily. I could then stick them in a nearby building and use Hands of the King to rejuvenate lightning fast, thus keeping hordes of less vulnerable variants of light cav crushing my opponents ecos. It would have worked better if Eregion got Elvensmiths and Trebs. Besides that, I can't think of any boosts to the Elflord, except maybe a troll or balrog boost. Maybe a fast attack instead. But make it seem maybe twice as costly as the swordthain. Also his orc bonus isn't that great, the Tarkil and Swordthain hit harder.
Jatayu
Squire
(id: Sword_of_STORM)
posted 01-11-13 09:04 PM CT (US)     700 / 3913       
I would support having a renewable means of getting gold. It would be something different from Aok.

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Jatayu O===|¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯/
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