Hi, first post here, but pretty regular reader... well not so regular did read here and there however. Warning, long thread. Have fun reading if you do xD
Anyway, I've been interested in the Map Editor for AoE for quite a while now, and I've always had problems with creating my landscape... but I finally got past that and ready to update with triggers. First off I want to start my discussion and questions with this:
GeniED - Would this be possible to get players to play with in a custom scenerio?
I really plan to twist and distort my scenerio as I plan to show you in a moment.
Second Question - I've thought out all of my triggers except... interaction. My scenerio is an RPG, which requires interaction from the environment and the players. Nature has a lot of wrath with the players (will show in examples soon), but the townsman really don't. I have 3 separate towns on my map but I'm still thinking of ideas of how to make the player feel like they are part of the town. Any sweet tips to make a small town more interactive? Will provide pictures below.
Third Question - AoE radius from my genied edits. What are the names of Rocks and Mountains and uh relics and stone heads and everything that will die from my AoE radius? If I can't find a way to stop my rocks and trees from instant death I'll have to remove AoE, which I find a shame.
Acknowledgement... not of people, of my scenerio.
I realize my idea for this rpg will take a lot of triggers - however I have no life, I am quite bored, and I've already had plenty of experience designing other projects, of course none were released except U Da Prey maps. So I am quite prepared for an overwhelming 3k+ triggers. The first class of archer alone took me over 300 triggers (which I deleted because my landscape wasnt done, and I didn't want to get into things before it was.)
Details of my Scenerio (preparing for the discussion):
First off, this is a GIANT map setting, and takes place in a land I'd like to call, well okay no name for the land, but everything else has a name. The plot is this scenerio is quite an easy one, there are 7 scattered bosses throughout the world, and each one holds a relic that opens the door to the major boss, Retrotic. Yes yes standard plot, but what makes my rpg unique, worth playing? Well theres a few reasons I believe its unique and worth playing... repeated myself there, but its okay.
1) The plot shifts after all the pieces to open the path to Retrotic are collected. The ally (player 7) suddenly enemies you and you are without any shelter for the rest of the game (or how I plan it so far). If you ever played Chrono Cross its similar to that, where the dragons backstab you after you do their dirty work. Not only do you have to kill Retrotic, who you find out is an ally of player 7, but you must also reinvade the towns and destroy the leaders. I believe this will extend game play and perhaps give a type of "sneak and don't die" excitement some players have.
2) Classes classes and more classes. I have planned uh let me count, 7 x 5 classes, and you can mix and match classes according to how you want to play the game. More class explanation below.
3) Skills, magic power, as well as magic recovery. You can cast skills using "mana" (wood) which slowly recovers, however mages can recover mp faster, and hold a greater bulk.
4) Magic strategies based on classes. Okay now admit there isn't REALLY much you can do in terms of magic with the AoE scenerio builder... so its more or less based on attack buffs, HP buffs, upgrades, mp buffs, mp recovery... however each class has different things. Crossbowmans for example, shoot extremely fast (assuming GeniED is used, which I plan to use, if players won't download it thats too bad), I put their firing speed at a very spamming amount (very fast), however, their spells increase damage in a unique way, one way I plan to incorporate is a rage shot (takes so many triggers to do however), which will increase damage as the spell is casted, starting at a 1 damage... 2 damage... 3 damage, up to 10, then diminish. With the speed the crossbowman can fire thats at least 5 10 power shots that are fired, and 5 of all the others in one magic spell. Really I need to clarify with pictures and what not. The idea is this: Warriors have LONG magic that buff them moderately. Archers have SHORT magic that buffs them highly. Thieves have PERMANENT magic, at least until they switch out of thief classes, that grant them moderate buffs. Mages have reliable buffs with reliable effects that they can pretty much spam. Beasts are unknown for now, I'm not sure what to do with them.
5) Exp System. Okay this can be abused I believe, I really didn't plan to release how my exp system would work but people would read the triggers anyway. Exp is read as "food" for a certain player. When you kill a monster in a certain part of the map, the amount of food equivalent to that location will get added to the player who's holding your "exp" storage. This allows your exp to be accurate totalled based on what YOU kill, and not how much you kill.
6) High level cap. I plan the max level to be level 50, and every level grants you one skill point, and most skill caps being level 10.
7) Class advancement. From level 15 you can advance to second class (which must relate to your first class). Example, a level 15 archer wants to advance class, so he may advance as either a crossbowman or a longbowman. Level 30 you may advance to third class, which may be any class you wish. Example, a crossbowman wishes to advance third class into a fire mage, he will keep all his first class and second class skills and obtain the third class fire mage skills. Level 45 you may advance to fourth class. Example, that fire mage may wish to advance back into a crossbowman (4th job crossbowman is a mounted archer), now the fourth job crossbowman will have first class + 2nd class archer skills (including his range skills and rage skills), and will also have the strong fire mage skills, which means his spam shot will do more damage than if he went completely through as a crossbowman, since fire mage has stronger skills. You may ask why would you go third job crossbowman instead of third job fire mage to get the stronger skills? Keep in mind that mages get more mp and higher mp recovery if they raise their second job skills (which they SHOULD)... so the fire mages third job's skills will cost a lot of MP, more than a crossbowman can rely on.
8) Spawn System. "Monsters" Spawn when their area gets low in creatures, which can sometimes lead you to be trapped in, so you need to be more careful when wandering in.
9) HOPEFUL quest system. I can't think of too many quests, but I'm thinking of marking some buildings with torches and flags to signify a quest, such as retrieving gold and what not.
10) Slave System. You will be able to purchase villagers for gold, and then use them to OBTAIN gold, there will be random gold mines throughout the map, and you will have to protect your villagers to go mine them, be careful with your AoE though, might just accidently pop one Prices of spells and more slaves is to be decided, don't think they will be too high, but high enough that gold's rarity should be considered.
Scenerio Discussion as a whole:
Landscape (Piece of)
[PNG, (2.64 MB)]
Not sure if theres a way to get the mini map bigger, looks pretty good to me though, ice area, water area, desert area, forest area, mountain areas. All covered.
Mana Pool:
[JPEG, (147.85 KB)]
Here is a picture of the Mana Pool, I removed all the triggers before I finished the landscape so I can't really demonstrate much. But the king first selects a starting character, on the right, and then he goes into the middle of the mana pool.
First job has 3 open slots for skills, usually these are like... Range[0/3] (0 outta the 3 skill upgrades), Manufacturing [0/3] (armor), and a skill like Evolution [0/3], which I should probably change to Hot Shot, which is a [0/10] skill, simply so people have something to burn their points on. However points can be saved until next class if so desired, so that should be kept in mind.
The 5 slots on the other side are covered with stones, second class will remove 3 of the stones, and 3rd class wil lremove the other 2. 4th Class gets their own separate areas, as do elementary spells, which are spells you buy using gold.
Notice along the backside of the skills there are open spaces, which looks like another casting center, but its actually your skill center, every level up an eagle will appear and be tasked out into the area, and you spend him like you would money, each eagle is one skill point.
Oh the magic casting system, if your king is in the slot of a castable spell, then the spell will be casted. Right now I'm thinking of an anti-stack method... to prevent spells from getting super stacked on top of eachother, but that'll ruin "spamming" a skill (keeping the king there so you can recast when you have mp), perhaps I'll have the king task out, put a stone, then when the skill wears off task him back in.
Here are some skill examples:
Earth Mage using his basic attack (earth shower) Notice how his shower comes from the side, I like skills like that, and I'm considering a single projectile version of that for second class magician.
[PNG, (840.88 KB)]
3rd Class earth mage
1st Class fire mage
[JPEG, (178.21 KB)]
4th Class Fire Mage using his basic attack (fire shower)
[JPEG, (161.71 KB)]
Retrotic's gate (And the 3rd town)
[PNG, (2.60 MB)]
First town + the archer camp (two separate portals, one for longbow one for crossbow, monument holds the quest)
[PNG, (2.67 MB)]
A few ideas of mine I want to throw in - prefer some opinions on these. I'm thinking of making the 4th class mages as an archer character (with mage spells), so if a player starts off as a first class archer their range skill will be applied towards the final mage form.
Thieves are toss ups for me, I was planning to have them with perma buffs, harald haadrade (or whatever) and hrolf the ganger, from second class and up they never change characters, harald is the ranged fast assassin, and hrolf is the fast melee assassin, each have their benefits. But after I decided for class mixing (to make it interesting.), I can't really think of any thief mixtures. Archers and warriors can all use mage as a sub-class for mp or damage, mages can use warriors as a sub-class for hp (maybe range if I convert them to an archer unit), Warriors can use archers for the buffs... I guess... no idea how they would fuse together, I plan to list benefits and disadvantages on a piece of paper when I get time tomorrow.
Beasts are also toss ups. Beasts are warriors first class, then can convert to spearman (2nd), pikeman (3rd), and Halberdier (4th). When a beast is walking they retain their normal state, but when they attack their animation changes (Eagle warrior spearman, Elephant Pikeman, and Turtle Ship Halberdier.) They have huge AoE (assuming I get the AoE to stop destroying my objects), and also have fast speed.
Boss fights:
I'm hoping boss fights are exciting. I'm thinking of freezing the boss in place, and using triggers for their attacks. Example, the boss might fire hawk explosions in a circle around them, doing damage (higher the further away someone is), and pushing you back (task) when you fall into their smoke. Also I'm thinking of making the screen shake (changing view), however that'd make it hard to access your mana pool to cast any spells.
Please note that basic attacks do not consume mp, however buffing the character does require mp.
Oh I should add in how the MP system works:
Every second you gain 2 MP, you're capped at 200 mp, the only way to raise your MP regain or your MP cap is by having second class mage in ur class list. When you put ur king into the casting slot, your mp will be deducted (usually around 100 depending on the spell.
---------------------Conclusion----------------------
Apologies for the long thread, not sure how long long is here... Also apologies for the large file size on some of the pictures. It takes me a while to reupload pictures with my connection, but I reuploaded a few of them, I'll add more pictures if requested later, and I'll make sure to JPG them, I was using fraps at first to screenshot and I thought PNG was smaller than that ^^.
Any comments? suggestions? complaints? I love hearing from others on my ideas, and perhaps incorporating new ones. If anyone wishes to take some of my ideas, go for it, I'd enjoy seeing a scenerio like this up and running, but if not then whatever. Sorry if I stole anyone elses idea... really don't think I did, I never saw any discussion on any of these things, such as the exp system, skill system, class branches, even the plot? Don't know.
When do I expect to be done with this? Probably not for a long time, AoE is something I do when I'm bored, but I'm also balancing learning korean in my spare time, so AoE gets devotion when I'm fed up with that. Lately I've had a lot of time, so dunno maybe this scenerio will be completed sometime this year, haha, I'm pretty sure I know how to set up most triggers, because I tested them before I was done with the landscape (got impatient)
Also I'd appreciate some comments on the genied, would players actually download my age2x_1? If not I guess you can disregard the whole thread - haha, since I don't plan to design without editting the characters.
Anyway, I've been interested in the Map Editor for AoE for quite a while now, and I've always had problems with creating my landscape... but I finally got past that and ready to update with triggers. First off I want to start my discussion and questions with this:
GeniED - Would this be possible to get players to play with in a custom scenerio?
I really plan to twist and distort my scenerio as I plan to show you in a moment.
Second Question - I've thought out all of my triggers except... interaction. My scenerio is an RPG, which requires interaction from the environment and the players. Nature has a lot of wrath with the players (will show in examples soon), but the townsman really don't. I have 3 separate towns on my map but I'm still thinking of ideas of how to make the player feel like they are part of the town. Any sweet tips to make a small town more interactive? Will provide pictures below.
Third Question - AoE radius from my genied edits. What are the names of Rocks and Mountains and uh relics and stone heads and everything that will die from my AoE radius? If I can't find a way to stop my rocks and trees from instant death I'll have to remove AoE, which I find a shame.
Acknowledgement... not of people, of my scenerio.
I realize my idea for this rpg will take a lot of triggers - however I have no life, I am quite bored, and I've already had plenty of experience designing other projects, of course none were released except U Da Prey maps. So I am quite prepared for an overwhelming 3k+ triggers. The first class of archer alone took me over 300 triggers (which I deleted because my landscape wasnt done, and I didn't want to get into things before it was.)
Details of my Scenerio (preparing for the discussion):
First off, this is a GIANT map setting, and takes place in a land I'd like to call, well okay no name for the land, but everything else has a name. The plot is this scenerio is quite an easy one, there are 7 scattered bosses throughout the world, and each one holds a relic that opens the door to the major boss, Retrotic. Yes yes standard plot, but what makes my rpg unique, worth playing? Well theres a few reasons I believe its unique and worth playing... repeated myself there, but its okay.
1) The plot shifts after all the pieces to open the path to Retrotic are collected. The ally (player 7) suddenly enemies you and you are without any shelter for the rest of the game (or how I plan it so far). If you ever played Chrono Cross its similar to that, where the dragons backstab you after you do their dirty work. Not only do you have to kill Retrotic, who you find out is an ally of player 7, but you must also reinvade the towns and destroy the leaders. I believe this will extend game play and perhaps give a type of "sneak and don't die" excitement some players have.
2) Classes classes and more classes. I have planned uh let me count, 7 x 5 classes, and you can mix and match classes according to how you want to play the game. More class explanation below.
3) Skills, magic power, as well as magic recovery. You can cast skills using "mana" (wood) which slowly recovers, however mages can recover mp faster, and hold a greater bulk.
4) Magic strategies based on classes. Okay now admit there isn't REALLY much you can do in terms of magic with the AoE scenerio builder... so its more or less based on attack buffs, HP buffs, upgrades, mp buffs, mp recovery... however each class has different things. Crossbowmans for example, shoot extremely fast (assuming GeniED is used, which I plan to use, if players won't download it thats too bad), I put their firing speed at a very spamming amount (very fast), however, their spells increase damage in a unique way, one way I plan to incorporate is a rage shot (takes so many triggers to do however), which will increase damage as the spell is casted, starting at a 1 damage... 2 damage... 3 damage, up to 10, then diminish. With the speed the crossbowman can fire thats at least 5 10 power shots that are fired, and 5 of all the others in one magic spell. Really I need to clarify with pictures and what not. The idea is this: Warriors have LONG magic that buff them moderately. Archers have SHORT magic that buffs them highly. Thieves have PERMANENT magic, at least until they switch out of thief classes, that grant them moderate buffs. Mages have reliable buffs with reliable effects that they can pretty much spam. Beasts are unknown for now, I'm not sure what to do with them.
5) Exp System. Okay this can be abused I believe, I really didn't plan to release how my exp system would work but people would read the triggers anyway. Exp is read as "food" for a certain player. When you kill a monster in a certain part of the map, the amount of food equivalent to that location will get added to the player who's holding your "exp" storage. This allows your exp to be accurate totalled based on what YOU kill, and not how much you kill.
6) High level cap. I plan the max level to be level 50, and every level grants you one skill point, and most skill caps being level 10.
7) Class advancement. From level 15 you can advance to second class (which must relate to your first class). Example, a level 15 archer wants to advance class, so he may advance as either a crossbowman or a longbowman. Level 30 you may advance to third class, which may be any class you wish. Example, a crossbowman wishes to advance third class into a fire mage, he will keep all his first class and second class skills and obtain the third class fire mage skills. Level 45 you may advance to fourth class. Example, that fire mage may wish to advance back into a crossbowman (4th job crossbowman is a mounted archer), now the fourth job crossbowman will have first class + 2nd class archer skills (including his range skills and rage skills), and will also have the strong fire mage skills, which means his spam shot will do more damage than if he went completely through as a crossbowman, since fire mage has stronger skills. You may ask why would you go third job crossbowman instead of third job fire mage to get the stronger skills? Keep in mind that mages get more mp and higher mp recovery if they raise their second job skills (which they SHOULD)... so the fire mages third job's skills will cost a lot of MP, more than a crossbowman can rely on.
8) Spawn System. "Monsters" Spawn when their area gets low in creatures, which can sometimes lead you to be trapped in, so you need to be more careful when wandering in.
9) HOPEFUL quest system. I can't think of too many quests, but I'm thinking of marking some buildings with torches and flags to signify a quest, such as retrieving gold and what not.
10) Slave System. You will be able to purchase villagers for gold, and then use them to OBTAIN gold, there will be random gold mines throughout the map, and you will have to protect your villagers to go mine them, be careful with your AoE though, might just accidently pop one
Scenerio Discussion as a whole:
Landscape (Piece of)
Not sure if theres a way to get the mini map bigger, looks pretty good to me though, ice area, water area, desert area, forest area, mountain areas. All covered.
Mana Pool:
Here is a picture of the Mana Pool, I removed all the triggers before I finished the landscape so I can't really demonstrate much. But the king first selects a starting character, on the right, and then he goes into the middle of the mana pool.
First job has 3 open slots for skills, usually these are like... Range
The 5 slots on the other side are covered with stones, second class will remove 3 of the stones, and 3rd class wil lremove the other 2. 4th Class gets their own separate areas, as do elementary spells, which are spells you buy using gold.
Notice along the backside of the skills there are open spaces, which looks like another casting center, but its actually your skill center, every level up an eagle will appear and be tasked out into the area, and you spend him like you would money, each eagle is one skill point.
Oh the magic casting system, if your king is in the slot of a castable spell, then the spell will be casted. Right now I'm thinking of an anti-stack method... to prevent spells from getting super stacked on top of eachother, but that'll ruin "spamming" a skill (keeping the king there so you can recast when you have mp), perhaps I'll have the king task out, put a stone, then when the skill wears off task him back in.
Here are some skill examples:
Earth Mage using his basic attack (earth shower) Notice how his shower comes from the side, I like skills like that, and I'm considering a single projectile version of that for second class magician.
3rd Class earth mage
1st Class fire mage
4th Class Fire Mage using his basic attack (fire shower)
Retrotic's gate (And the 3rd town)
First town + the archer camp (two separate portals, one for longbow one for crossbow, monument holds the quest)
A few ideas of mine I want to throw in - prefer some opinions on these. I'm thinking of making the 4th class mages as an archer character (with mage spells), so if a player starts off as a first class archer their range skill will be applied towards the final mage form.
Thieves are toss ups for me, I was planning to have them with perma buffs, harald haadrade (or whatever) and hrolf the ganger, from second class and up they never change characters, harald is the ranged fast assassin, and hrolf is the fast melee assassin, each have their benefits. But after I decided for class mixing (to make it interesting.), I can't really think of any thief mixtures. Archers and warriors can all use mage as a sub-class for mp or damage, mages can use warriors as a sub-class for hp (maybe range if I convert them to an archer unit), Warriors can use archers for the buffs... I guess... no idea how they would fuse together, I plan to list benefits and disadvantages on a piece of paper when I get time tomorrow.
Beasts are also toss ups. Beasts are warriors first class, then can convert to spearman (2nd), pikeman (3rd), and Halberdier (4th). When a beast is walking they retain their normal state, but when they attack their animation changes (Eagle warrior spearman, Elephant Pikeman, and Turtle Ship Halberdier.) They have huge AoE (assuming I get the AoE to stop destroying my objects), and also have fast speed.
Boss fights:
I'm hoping boss fights are exciting. I'm thinking of freezing the boss in place, and using triggers for their attacks. Example, the boss might fire hawk explosions in a circle around them, doing damage (higher the further away someone is), and pushing you back (task) when you fall into their smoke. Also I'm thinking of making the screen shake (changing view), however that'd make it hard to access your mana pool to cast any spells.
Please note that basic attacks do not consume mp, however buffing the character does require mp.
Oh I should add in how the MP system works:
Every second you gain 2 MP, you're capped at 200 mp, the only way to raise your MP regain or your MP cap is by having second class mage in ur class list. When you put ur king into the casting slot, your mp will be deducted (usually around 100 depending on the spell.
---------------------Conclusion----------------------
Apologies for the long thread, not sure how long long is here... Also apologies for the large file size on some of the pictures. It takes me a while to reupload pictures with my connection, but I reuploaded a few of them, I'll add more pictures if requested later, and I'll make sure to JPG them, I was using fraps at first to screenshot and I thought PNG was smaller than that ^^.
Any comments? suggestions? complaints? I love hearing from others on my ideas, and perhaps incorporating new ones. If anyone wishes to take some of my ideas, go for it, I'd enjoy seeing a scenerio like this up and running, but if not then whatever. Sorry if I stole anyone elses idea... really don't think I did, I never saw any discussion on any of these things, such as the exp system, skill system, class branches, even the plot? Don't know.
When do I expect to be done with this? Probably not for a long time, AoE is something I do when I'm bored, but I'm also balancing learning korean in my spare time, so AoE gets devotion when I'm fed up with that. Lately I've had a lot of time, so dunno maybe this scenerio will be completed sometime this year, haha, I'm pretty sure I know how to set up most triggers, because I tested them before I was done with the landscape (got impatient)
Also I'd appreciate some comments on the genied, would players actually download my age2x_1? If not I guess you can disregard the whole thread - haha, since I don't plan to design without editting the characters.