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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Discussion » Checkpoints
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Topic Subject:Checkpoints
White Champion
Squire
posted 02-01-08 04:38 PM CT (US)         
Ok, so I've made this new map called race to the finish.

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On one of the comments, it suggests to add checkpoints. The only problem with this is that i can't seem to find a possible way to do that. The reason is that the player starts with a paladin that has had its HP changed, so if it dies, how is the trigger going to detect the HP that the Paladin was at when it was at the checkpoint?

I hope this makes sense to you guys (i'm sure it will(you are some smart kids)). Anyways, if there is a way, tell me how, and if there isn't, tell me that there isn't. Thanks.
AuthorReplies:
Impeached
VIP (Reverie World Studios)
(id: MeGaIdIoT)
posted 02-02-08 01:09 AM CT (US)     1 / 24       
There is no practical way to achieve that.

me
Crazedmaniac
Squire
posted 02-02-08 01:30 AM CT (US)     2 / 24       
You could develop an AI that loads settings when you submit a key phrase.

Example:


1st Checkpoint Key: fju382
2nd Checkpoint Key: asf322
etc

For triggers....well, using the AI to trigger settings like so:

Trigger 8 (or whatever it is)
Starting State: off
Display as Objective: off


Effect: Change Object HP

and just add effects or whatever

If checkpoints are at a specific area, just make an invisible unit at each checkpoint, and have an AI kill the current guy, and uncloak the other one....thats how I would do it...

CRAZEDMANIAC
The Ever Changing Maze Progress: 73%
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UnnamedPlayer
Squire
posted 02-02-08 01:32 AM CT (US)     3 / 24       
the only way I can think of doing it involves the Paladin dying
Argotha
Squire
posted 02-02-08 03:24 AM CT (US)     4 / 24       
Another way which may work is to have a control area where everytime he increases in health you build say an outpost on a certain square, for example if he increases in blocks of 5 health, when he reaches 20 health in you control area you should have 4 outposts in a line. next you need a respawn area that when the paladin respawns the triggers that give him back his bonus health check for a outpost in spot a (ie condition obkect in area) effect change object health +5, chekc for outpost in area b, if so change object health +5 etc. however to do this you will need several trigeres to get the loop to work. you may also require the same system to detect which check point he is at.

when reading example letter spots arethe row where you create the outposts for cehck points
when there are number spots they are the row where out posts are for health
EXAMPLE:

trigger 1 - on
cond- onj in area (checkpouint 1)
effect- create object outpost (spot a)

trigger 2 - on
cond - unit killed (dont select the palidin just say unit type palidin)
effect actvate trigger 3,4,5

trig 3: off
cond - object in area (spot A, outpost)
effect - activate trigger 6

trig 4 - off
cond - object in area (spot b, outpost)
effect - activate trigger x

trig 5 - off
cond - object in area (spot b outpost)
effect - activate trigger x

trigger 6 - off
effect - create palidin (in spawn square (make sure the square is sealed off woith something such as stone heads or gold mines)
effect - activate trigger 7,8,9,10

triger 7 - off
cond - object in area (outpost spot 1)
effect change object health , area spawn point one or unit, palidin

trigger 8 - off
cond - object in area (outpost, spot 2)
effect, change object health

trigger 9 - off
cond - object in area (palidin spawn point 1 including the spot where one side will be removed)
effect - remove object (one side of the spawn area so he can get out )

trigger 10 - off
cond object in area ( area out side of spawn area)
effect - place object (gold mine or whatever you use to creat the barrier around the spawn point

repeat where needed

that all my brain will let me do for now (headache), if something doesnt make sense jsut reply and ill try explain

Argotha
CHAOS... PANIC... DISORDER...
My work here is done
Current projects: Utread: chapt1 (2/6 maps), Utread 2: (2ish/?) various other scens
"this brings me to a realisation, that scenario design is like childbirth, you soon quickly forget the pain it caused you but then you go back and do it again."
White Champion
Squire
posted 02-02-08 05:04 PM CT (US)     5 / 24       
I get what your saying and thanks but the problem with that method is that he doesn't gain health along the way, he gets a fixed health amount at the start and it doesn't change. If I am missing something, please tell me, thanks.
Argotha
Squire
posted 02-02-08 06:08 PM CT (US)     6 / 24       
from what you said, you undestand how to get him to respawn with that health. as for gettign that health along the way, remember that the numbered spots are for health, so when you increase the paladins health you also create an object in the spot

exapmle:

trigger 1 - on
cond-obj destroyed (mini boss 1)
effect - increase object health (+5 object type, paladin (dont use select object)
effect- create object (outpost, spot 1)

trigger 2 - on
cond- object in area
effect - increase health
effect - create object (outpost spot 2)


the triggers between this post and my previous post dont have to be in the order they were written, do the order which you prefer.

in the example, when the palidin kill the miniboss or whatever it may be to gain extra health, he gains the extra health but when this happens the outpost is create in the "health line", in trigger 2, he reaches a certain point to gain health and again an outpost is created in the health line. This way he gains health but also sets up the contol outposts for when he needs to respawn. it alos means that if he misses a point to get health he will not automatically get it at the next checkpoint.

also note the control point objects do not have to be player 1 object, in fact if they are not it is preferable because the player doesnt need to see them and if he deletes them he will cause himself problems. simmerly if you want to heve the option for people to make it harder for themselves you could keep them as player 1 buildings. also you do not have to use outposts, any 1x1 building will do such as paliside wall becuase they have a small LOS.

hope it makes more sense now

Argotha
CHAOS... PANIC... DISORDER...
My work here is done
Current projects: Utread: chapt1 (2/6 maps), Utread 2: (2ish/?) various other scens
"this brings me to a realisation, that scenario design is like childbirth, you soon quickly forget the pain it caused you but then you go back and do it again."
White Champion
Squire
posted 02-02-08 06:13 PM CT (US)     7 / 24       
Thanks, but the thing is, like i said before and if you play the map, he starts with eg. 20000 health and never gains any more health therefore you can't track the health he was at.
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-02-08 06:15 PM CT (US)     8 / 24       
Whooaaa, lots of triggers all too confusing
he doesn't gain health along the way, he gets a fixed health amount at the start and it doesn't change.
This is stupidly simple if I understand you, which leads me to think I don't. You want when a player loses it goes back to the nearest checkpoint, and the paladin has the right amount of HP? If he always has say 100 extra HP, just add an effect to add 100 HP to all Paladins in the area you create the new unit. Just make sure it is after the create object -->paladin effect. same trigger two effects.

Watch me be totally out to lunch on this

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
White Champion
Squire
posted 02-02-08 06:20 PM CT (US)     9 / 24       
Unfortunately matty, it isn't that simple. The way that you are saying it is that after he dies, he respawns with the same amount of health he started with at the nearest checkpoint. But, for example, the guy is at the end of the level and just passed a checkpoint. If he died, he would be at the end of the level, with full health (which is huge in this game!). If you don't understand why this works, try out the map, and you'll understand. Thanks though.
Argotha
Squire
posted 02-02-08 06:26 PM CT (US)     10 / 24       
it might take a day or two but ill try, to get around to playing the map as well. that way ill be able to see what you mean (at least have a better understanding)

Argotha
CHAOS... PANIC... DISORDER...
My work here is done
Current projects: Utread: chapt1 (2/6 maps), Utread 2: (2ish/?) various other scens
"this brings me to a realisation, that scenario design is like childbirth, you soon quickly forget the pain it caused you but then you go back and do it again."
Mr Wednesday
Cavalier
(id: matty12345)
posted 02-02-08 06:31 PM CT (US)     11 / 24       
Ermm, then there isn't any way

"And Matt is a prolific lurker, watching over the forum from afar in silence, like Batman. He's the president TC needs, and possibly also the one it deserves." - trebuchet king
White Champion
Squire
posted 02-02-08 06:38 PM CT (US)     12 / 24       
All right then! Thanks everyone!
Argotha
Squire
posted 02-02-08 06:51 PM CT (US)     13 / 24       
ahhhh! *light bulb apears above head* now i get what your saying, my mistake. It wasnt he increased in health and you wanted to track that. It was you wanted to track his loss of health.

from my understanding of the editor and the trigger system (im not an expert someone else here may know better) there is no way to track a loss of health. however i do not know about aok trigger studio, as it has extra trigger options whihc may be able to.

the only way i can see this working though it is not fair nor accurate. it is this, from playing hte map several times work out the mean health of the paladin when he reaches each checkpoint. from this use the respan system except once he has been given his extra 20000 health or whatever it was, damage him to decrece his health to the average. the only problem is that a good player may end up with less health and a bad palyer may end up with more.

Argotha
CHAOS... PANIC... DISORDER...
My work here is done
Current projects: Utread: chapt1 (2/6 maps), Utread 2: (2ish/?) various other scens
"this brings me to a realisation, that scenario design is like childbirth, you soon quickly forget the pain it caused you but then you go back and do it again."

[This message has been edited by Argotha (edited 02-02-2008 @ 06:52 PM).]

White Champion
Squire
posted 02-02-08 06:55 PM CT (US)     14 / 24       
Yes, I thought of that too... Well, it's better than nothing right? Thank you guys tons for replying and helping. If anyone does somehow come up with a way (I'll check out the options on trigger studio but i doubt it) that would be awesome thanks.
Lazy Monkey
Squire
posted 02-03-08 02:44 PM CT (US)     15 / 24       
Dunno if its already been solved (i'm too lazy to check) but here's how i would do it:

Step 1: Place a unit in a secluded area like the edge of the map.

Step 2: Do the following triggers:

Trigger 0
Loop:yes
On at start:yes
Conditions: own fewer objects: 1 (Player 1)
Effects: create object: Paladin
change view (optional)

For checkpoints:

Trigger 1
Loop:no
On at start:yes
Conditions: objects in area: Player 1: area of checkpoint
Effects: activate trigger 2
deactivate trigger 0

Trigger 2
Loop:yes
On at start:no
Conditions: own fewer objects: 1 (Player 1)
Effects: create object Paladin

And do that for every checkpoint, the deactivate effect must deactivate the last reappearing Paladin checkpoint. Hope this helped!

P.S. Unfortunately there is no way to detect the amount of hp a unit has, so I suggest he just respawns with max hp, checkpoints are only to stop people to get frustrated. If people never got angry, people would have no need for checkpoints.

________________
____________________
Lazy Monkey
-__________________-

Current project: Um...What's that?

[This message has been edited by Lazy Monkey (edited 02-03-2008 @ 02:48 PM).]

Julius999
Imposter
posted 02-03-08 02:51 PM CT (US)     16 / 24       
EDIT: Sorry, I misunderstood what you wanted.

You can do what you want but it would be much, much too messy and complicated, and the end result wouldn't be worth all the disadvantages.

My suggestions is that you give the player a set number of lives, and every time they die (and still have a life left) they respawn at the last checkpoint with full health. When they die and have no lives left, they lose.

1010011010
[ All_That_Glitters | Pretty_Town_Contest | Other_AoK_Designs | AoE_Designs ]
Member of Stormwind Studios

[This message has been edited by Julius999 (edited 02-03-2008 @ 02:56 PM).]

UnnamedPlayer
Squire
posted 02-03-08 03:43 PM CT (US)     17 / 24       
loop:
cond: paladin in area
effect: damage object 1
effect: add 1 gold
effect: add 1 stone

example, paladin had 20 HP. now it is dead and someone has 20 stone + 20 gold.

then you create paladin. Damage MaxHP - 1. (so it has 1HP left)

loop:
cond: has 1 gold
effect: heal object 1

no loop:
effect: damage paladin 1

now you have your paladin back

then when it dies you just make a new paladin like above except with stone instead of gold. then you repeat the process.

[This message has been edited by UnnamedPlayer (edited 02-03-2008 @ 03:56 PM).]

Julius999
Imposter
posted 02-03-08 04:17 PM CT (US)     18 / 24       
That would work except it would take forever (he mentioned that the paladin has massive health), and also you would have to put up with the paladin dying at every checkpoint before being (slowly) restored.

White Champion: If you've really set your heart on it, I'll tell you how.

1010011010
[ All_That_Glitters | Pretty_Town_Contest | Other_AoK_Designs | AoE_Designs ]
Member of Stormwind Studios
UnnamedPlayer
Squire
posted 02-03-08 05:04 PM CT (US)     19 / 24       
the bigger the HP the larger increment you use

you'll still get within 1% accuracy
White Champion
Squire
posted 02-03-08 11:18 PM CT (US)     20 / 24       
Thanks, I would like to know how anyways Julius, but I'm afraid it will be to time-consuming. I'd like to know though, thanks and also thanks for everyones input on this topic, it has really brought some interesting ideas to my head.
Julius999
Imposter
posted 02-04-08 09:15 AM CT (US)     21 / 24       
you'll still get within 1% accuracy
You still have the player's unit dying all the time.

White Champion: Here you are then.

1. When the player reaches the checkpoint, stop him from moving forward into the next zone, or backwards into the last zone.

2. Have a monk target the player's unit. Work out how much health it heals per second (if the unit's health is large search for the utility that lets you change healing rate).

3. Have a looping Object has Target condition on the monk, with a 1 second timer. Have this trigger tribute stone, and also gold, from GAIA to a player (doesn't matter which).

4. Use more triggers to detect when the monk has stopped targetting (I won't explain these here), and then remove the monk.

5. Have a looping trigger that tributes away the stone, and damages the paladin (by the same amount that the monk heals in a second). I won't explain the detail here, but this can be made to be a pretty fast process.

6. Use triggers to detect when that player has run out of stone, and let the player continue.

7. If the player dies do the same damage trigger as in 6, except with gold, and a newly created paladin.

As you can see, it's complicated. The advantages it has over UnnamedPlayer's system are that it will usually be quicker, the paladin doesn't always die, it can be more accurate if you do it right, but the triggers are much more trouble.

1010011010
[ All_That_Glitters | Pretty_Town_Contest | Other_AoK_Designs | AoE_Designs ]
Member of Stormwind Studios

[This message has been edited by Julius999 (edited 02-04-2008 @ 09:17 AM).]

Cesar Bernardi
Squire
posted 02-04-08 09:56 AM CT (US)     22 / 24       
You could develop an AI that loads settings when you submit a key phrase.
Nah nah nah nah nah!

AI cannot detect the typing of phrases. Only numbers.
White Champion
Squire
posted 02-04-08 05:07 PM CT (US)     23 / 24       
Wow Julius, thats clever. I probably won't use it for this particular scenario but I will definitely give you credit if I do use it in one. Thanks!
Argotha
Squire
posted 02-08-08 04:13 AM CT (US)     24 / 24       
*GASP* My cool, fancy, awsome, cool way has been beaten *aside* multiple times *-aside* but then again i did get the wrong idea. Havent had time to play it yet but good luck (if you decide to) with the checkpoints.

Argotha
CHAOS... PANIC... DISORDER...
My work here is done
Current projects: Utread: chapt1 (2/6 maps), Utread 2: (2ish/?) various other scens
"this brings me to a realisation, that scenario design is like childbirth, you soon quickly forget the pain it caused you but then you go back and do it again."
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