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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Discussion » Help a newbie. Scenario editor problem.
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Topic Subject:Help a newbie. Scenario editor problem.
Self Destruct
Squire
posted 02-08-08 04:47 PM CT (US)         
I feel stupid asking this question, but I have read several AoK's tutorials, FAQs, etc. and it didn't help. I just started making maps/scenarios for AoK: TC yesterday and I am having a problem.

PROBLEM: When I start my map in single player mode, I cannot see my allies starting position on the mini-map. It is a simple 2 vs 2 map(Me + 1 AI VS 2 enemy AI.) In the setup screen I set my AI ally and myself to team 1, and the other two AI to team 2. However, when I start the game I cannot see my ally's location and under diplomacy it says my AI team-mate is my enemy. I am confused.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
AuthorReplies:
JuBuOrangie
Squire
posted 02-08-08 04:56 PM CT (US)     1 / 18       
Try making it so you have cartography in the game if it still doesnt work then you have diplomacy issues.
Self Destruct
Squire
posted 02-08-08 05:14 PM CT (US)     2 / 18       
I tried your idea, I started the game, and researched cartography but nothing happened. For some reason my ally is set to enemy as soon as the game begins. Any other ideas?

Thanks
Jas the Mace1
Squire
posted 02-08-08 06:39 PM CT (US)     3 / 18       
If you haven't already set your ally's diplomacy to 'Ally'
but they can still switch...
The easiest permanent way is to set up diplomacy triggers. On the top box select new trigger....then go to the bottom box and select effect....hit the down arrow next to effect and scroll up to the top and pick 'change diplomacy' and set them to ally (make sure you select 'Looping')
Self Destruct
Squire
posted 02-08-08 07:47 PM CT (US)     4 / 18       
Thanks I will try that.
Andanu T
Squire
posted 02-08-08 08:53 PM CT (US)     5 / 18       
A looping 'Change Diplomacy' trigger might solve the problem. But if you rather not having too many looping triggers, use a custom AI.

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JuBuOrangie
Squire
posted 02-08-08 10:23 PM CT (US)     6 / 18       
Easiest thing is theres a lock teams check box you can use. I dont know why no-one thought of that before.
Jatayu
Squire
(id: Sword_of_STORM)
posted 02-08-08 11:33 PM CT (US)     7 / 18       
Lock teams is not good You can't change diplomacy at all throughout the game.

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Jatayu O===| /
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Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 02-09-08 03:59 AM CT (US)     8 / 18       
That's not a big deal in most scenarios
Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 02-09-08 04:05 AM CT (US)     9 / 18       
not in the b&d scenario's. But when you want to make an other type of scenario you usually have to change diplomacy at one time or another..
Enraged Orange
Squire
(id: RoboPaul88)
posted 02-09-08 05:57 PM CT (US)     10 / 18       
You can still do it through triggers, and I can't remember ever having played a scenario where the player had to (or even was allowed to) change diplomacy with other players himself
Self Destruct
Squire
posted 02-09-08 06:09 PM CT (US)     11 / 18       
I have some more information to add to this:

I have 2 PC's(personal computers), so I had my PC #1 host a server over my LAN, using my custom map, and I had my 2nd PC join the server. I set the map settings as follows:
-2 humans vs 2 AI
-2 humans on team 1
-2 AI on team 2
-Locked teams ON
-Team together ON
-Visibility: Normal

When I started the game, everything worked. I could see my teammates starting position. I tried it again with each human player having an AI teammate and it worked again. So it seems to me that when testing a map in the map editor and in Single Player---> Standard Game, that you cannot see your teammates starting position. Is this an already well known bug? If so why does it seem like I am the only one to know about it or mention it?
Jas the Mace1
Squire
posted 02-09-08 10:47 PM CT (US)     12 / 18       
It's not a 'bug'

If you start in the dark ages - you won't see
If you start in a later age where you have cartography you *will* see your ally's line of sight.
JuBuOrangie
Squire
posted 02-09-08 11:13 PM CT (US)     13 / 18       
Unless your ally has a town center then the area around it is explored but you cant see.
Self Destruct
Squire
posted 02-10-08 03:54 PM CT (US)     14 / 18       
@Jas the Mace1
I know what "line of sight" is and am not referring to "line of sight", I am talking about my ally's starting position on the map. At the main menu select single player, then standard game, then give yourself an AI teammate and an enemy. Then start the game and you will instantly see your teammate's starting location on the mini-map.

@JuBuOrange
Yes my ally and enemies both have town centers. But still I cannot even see my AI team-mate's starting position using my custom map.

Here are some screen-shots to help explain:

Here I have loaded my custom map and you can see the game settings before I start the mission:



In this photo my custom map has begun and you will notice that I can not see my teammate's starting location on the mini-map. Also the diplomacy screen is up and it shows that my AI teammate is NOT my teammate. :/



Unlike the above images this photo is not my custom map, it is a single player standard game, 1 AI + me VS 2 AI. All setting are the exact same except I am not playing on my custom map. Here you will notice I can see my teammate's starting position as normal.



Does anyone else know about this bug, so I can conclude it is not just my computer doing it?
Stephen Richards
Squire
posted 02-10-08 04:14 PM CT (US)     15 / 18       
Odd that you didn't see fit to mention you're using a mod. Perhaps it's quirk of AoC, I just tested on a normal RM and it didn't happen.

Anyway if you've using a custom scenario, Jas's suggestion will stop the AI changing diplomacy:
'change diplomacy' and set them to ally (make sure you select 'Looping')
Self Destruct
Squire
posted 02-10-08 06:22 PM CT (US)     16 / 18       
@Stephen Richards

I felt mentioning the mod was irrelevant because I have tried it on a different computer with a fresh install of AoK: TC without the mod and I saw the same bug. Therefore the mod is not causing the bug. And yes testing it on a normal RM will not produce the bug, as shown in my third photo.

True a trigger might stop the AI from changing diplomacy, but that does not help someone new to scenario creation understand that setting an AI as their teammate (in a single player standard game)is pointless as their AI teammates will just change to the enemy's team every time. Furthermore, If you set an AI as your teammate you shouldn't need a trigger to tell it that it is your ally.

This obvious bug should be put in one the beginners scenario design tutorials/FAQ's so that beginners like me(who did not know about the bug) would not get frustrated and waste a lot of time trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, when all along I was doing nothing wrong, it was just a minor Ensemble Studios design flaw.

Thanks everybody for their input. I will now conclude that it is clearly a bug, even though for some strange reason no-one will simply just admit it is a common known bug.

[This message has been edited by Self Destruct (edited 02-10-2008 @ 06:25 PM).]

Stephen Richards
Squire
posted 02-10-08 06:48 PM CT (US)     17 / 18       
We know it's not a consistent bug because we can't always replicate it. The Standard AI has many quirks - if you seach the forums for diplomacy I'm sure you'll find a lot of threads - but there are known workarounds such as using triggers or a custom AI.
JuBuOrangie
Squire
posted 02-10-08 07:55 PM CT (US)     18 / 18       
Try setting diplomacy in the editor with your scenario. Then leave the teams alone just as a -. Lock teams must be on.
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