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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Discussion » AI Tournament League - AI Script Ladders
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Topic Subject:AI Tournament League - AI Script Ladders
Bingmann
Squire
posted 05-12-01 09:47 PM CT (US)         
The AI Tournament League announces the start of the AI Script Ladders!

The AI Tournament League is returning to the bread and butter of AI scripts for the first group of AI Script Ladders: Arabia Random Map. The ladders are divided into three divisions: 1 AI vs 1 AI (Division 1), 2 AI vs 2 AI (Division 2), and the massive 4 AI vs 4 AI (Division 4).

Suggestions for other AI Script Ladders are welcome, but you will need to back up your suggestion by submitting an AI script for the new ladder. There is no point in starting a ladder if even the person making the suggestion will not participate.

Other ladders that are almost certain to be created later are an Arabia Death Match, a Team Islands Random Map, and a Coastal Random Map. The last two map types are subject to debate, so make your preferences known here if you think Islands is a better choice than Team Islands, and if you think Baltic is a better choice than Coastal. Again, additional ladders are possible as long as there is enough support from AI scripters.

Details for the AI Script Ladders can be found at the League page:
http://aok.heavengames.com/ai-tourney


Bingmann's Age of Kings AI Scripting Kitchen Party - http://aok.xhounds.com
AoK:TC AI Tournament League - http://aok.heavengames.com/ai-tourney
AuthorReplies:
Elite Raider
Squire
posted 05-13-01 08:24 AM CT (US)     1 / 20       
I would like to suggest that victory conditions are set to "conquest" instead of "standard" - to me wonder and relic victories go a bit against the grain for AI scripts.

Its just a personal opinion, but I feel the spirit of the game for AI lies in combat and striving to achieve victory by conquest, not in massing monks and turtling. If the monks are used to conquer opponents, then that is fine.

So .... does anyone else feel this way ?


Phoenix_ER - proud member of the Phoenix Clan
Swift Sabre
Squire
posted 05-14-01 01:33 AM CT (US)     2 / 20       
I agree and would also like the victory condition set to
conquest, but am still entering my script regardless.

Any one else planning on entering a script in the ladder?

Bingmann
Squire
posted 05-14-01 11:11 AM CT (US)     3 / 20       
Past tournament competitors have insisted on Standard victory condition. There is no reason why there can't be another ladder for "conquest only", but you might want to consider that conquest is a subset of Standard. In fact, conquest dominates all of the other victory conditions in Standard; you can't win with relics or a wonder if you are dead. Several effective counters exist for massed monks, and - believe it or not - it is possible to destroy wonders.
marksman_tr
Squire
posted 05-14-01 01:03 PM CT (US)     4 / 20       
I want to join a Deatmatch tourney do you know any DM tourney. And I have an Ai for RM but I'm not very well for programming RM Ai.If you want I can send it
Bingmann
Squire
posted 05-15-01 12:31 PM CT (US)     5 / 20       
marksman- If you send me your DM AI, I will set up the DM ladder.

Everyone should send in an AI script for each ladder if you have one. The ladders are dynamic; you can always replace your current AI with a better version later.

Elite Raider
Squire
posted 05-15-01 09:35 PM CT (US)     6 / 20       
Cool. Just ironing-out a few wrinkles first

Phoenix_ER - proud member of the Phoenix Clan
Bon
Banned
posted 05-15-01 11:15 PM CT (US)     7 / 20       
No offense but, Let me get this straight, you guys type endless pages of letters making an ai in half the time you could play a normal game. I don't mean to be rude, but I find that incredibly boring, even more then watching the grass grow. ARe there any good prizes for this boredem.
Swift Sabre
Squire
posted 05-16-01 01:20 AM CT (US)     8 / 20       
I suppose each has their own reasons for spending countless
hours writing and testing their AI scripts, but for me the
enjoyment comes from watching my creations come to life.

I am hopless at human multi-player games but my knack for programming allows me to compete with other AI scripters on a level playing field in which i actually
have a chance of winning. I like cerebral challenges like
AI scripting and dont find it boring at all :-)


Elite Raider
Squire
posted 05-16-01 10:00 AM CT (US)     9 / 20       
lol - I wonder how many serious scripters can beat their own creations ? I know I can't.

The only one I can think of off-hand who might be able to is hZ_Farmer.


Phoenix_ER - proud member of the Phoenix Clan
marksman_tr
Squire
posted 05-16-01 02:23 PM CT (US)     10 / 20       
I have to questions;
1- Will you show my Ai codes before tournament
2- Can you make 200 pop for DM because 125 is too low for a Deatmatch game
Elite Raider
Squire
posted 05-16-01 07:36 PM CT (US)     11 / 20       
1. What are the rules around civ choices ? Can we choose the civ we want to ? If so, and it is 2 vs 2 or 4 vs 4, must they all be different, can we use just two, can we make them all the same, etc ?

2. teams locked or unlocked ?

3. I think marksman's Q is quite a good one - normally in a "tournament" the ai's are put up for download after entries are closed / the competition is finished. In effect this "tournament" has no end date, thus implying that later entrants can potentially view the code of the existing AI's and code specifically for them ? It doesn't worry me - but some people may feel unhappy about this, or in having their code revealed at all ? Do you have some form of statement in principle as to your standpoint on this aspect ?

4. I am assuming also that :

1 vs 1 = map size small
2 vs 2 = map size medium
4 vs 4 = map size large.


Phoenix_ER - proud member of the Phoenix Clan
Bingmann
Squire
posted 05-17-01 10:29 AM CT (US)     12 / 20       
marksman-

1. AI scripts are added one at a time to the ladders. There is no actual tournament; the ladders are a continuous process. After an AI script is added to a ladder, it will be available for download.

2. I agree. I will get the Rules Committee to vote on it.

EliteRaider-

1. You can choose any civs that you want for your players, including Random. There are no restrictions on civ choice.

2 & 4. All game settings are listed on the "Schedule" page of the AI Tournament League home page. Teams unlocked. Map sizes are correct.

3. As you say, the ladders don't end. As a practical matter, I don't intend to upload recorded games of the matches since I anticipate that once the ladders get going it will take 10+ games per script to add it to the ladder. Multiply that by the currently planned 12 ladders, and I would be buried in recorded games. Authors will be able to verify results by downloading the scripts and recreating the matches themselves. This verification process should be as good as recorded games because matches are the best two games out of three; an outmatched script might get lucky once, but having to win twice demonstrates a degree of repeatability.

Philosophically, the goal of the AI Tournament League is to have fun swapping AI scripts and raising the level of competence of all AI scripters through a competitive setting. Trying to keep script code secret is contrary to this goal. You will still have your moment of glory as your "secret weapon" makes its appearance, which will be duly noted in the ladder history page for all time even if your script is eventually dethroned by later scripts with the appropriate countermeasures.

Bingmann
Squire
posted 05-18-01 12:37 PM CT (US)     13 / 20       
The Rules Committee has decided that all Deathmatch ladders will use a population limit of 200.
Swift Sabre
Squire
posted 05-18-01 02:38 PM CT (US)     14 / 20       
Bingmann-
Thanks for fixing the error in my script dealing with
the use of "my-civ" in place of "civ-selected" which it
should have been. I threw that code in at the last minute
and didnt test it first.

Swift Sabre

Elite Raider
Squire
posted 05-19-01 08:10 AM CT (US)     15 / 20       
I see it has started

Nice work to Bingmann and SwiftSabre, who have started the ball rolling.

Good Game to all !!


Phoenix_ER - proud member of the Phoenix Clan
Bingmann
Squire
posted 05-23-01 01:08 PM CT (US)     16 / 20       
AI Script Ladders have been added for Arabia Death Match, Team Islands Random Map, and Coastal Random Map:

http://aok.heavengames.com/ai-tourney

Congratulations to SwiftSabre and EliteRaider for their top-ranked AI scripts on the Arabia Random Map ladder!

Swift Sabre
Squire
posted 05-23-01 10:18 PM CT (US)     17 / 20       
Thanks Bingmann,
I will be sending an updated version of my
script shorty containing many major and minor bug
fixes.

And congratulations to Elite Raider who knocked me off
my #1 spot

marksman_tr
Squire
posted 05-28-01 03:23 PM CT (US)     18 / 20       
Sorry I won't join this tournament. Because my ai's all codes special.. I worked on 9 months. And I still not upload this ai to any site. It haven't a 'secret weapon' but all codes have secret tactics and code system .. And it's not a copy from other ai's so I don't want to see this codes in other competitors ai..
I hope you can understand me.
Respectfully,
Marksman - TR -
Bingmann
Squire
posted 06-07-01 10:07 AM CT (US)     19 / 20       
It looks like most AI scripters have moved on to something else. That's not too surprising; Age of Kings is getting a bit old - or I guess they call it "classic".

Since there is almost no activity on the ladders, I intend to add all of the AI scripts from past tournaments to the ladder (and also some scripts from other sources) to create a ranked archive of past scripting efforts and achievements. If your old AI script is added to the ladder and you don't want it there, send me an email and I will remove it.

Also, please don't be embarrassed if your AI script is near the bottom of a ladder. Scripts at the bottom of a ladder are also important. Many times human players are looking for new AI opponents and the lower-ranked AI scripts match their ability levels better than the top scripts. In any case, making a functional AI script is a commendable achievement in itself, no matter how well it works out.

Elite Raider
Squire
posted 06-08-01 07:37 PM CT (US)     20 / 20       
Well said Bingmann - until you have written your own ai, it is hard to relate to how much actually goes into the process. It is indeed an achievement to get one to a stage where it is more or less complete and functional.

Thanks also for all the effort you put into the ai scripting community - it sure is appreciated !


Phoenix_ER - proud member of the Phoenix Clan
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