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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Discussion » Search for a good Robin Hood campaign
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Topic Subject:Search for a good Robin Hood campaign
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Tanneur99
HG Alumnus
posted 11-27-02 07:38 AM CT (US)         
Lately I was playing some Robin Hood campaigns and there are many. I am looking for a GOOD ROBIN HOOD CAMPAIGN, the topic says all.

Of course I played The Adventures of Robin Hood by Gregory Koteles, but it is incomplete. He only posted the first two out of six planned scenarios. His campaign ends when the original story just started.

Anybody can help?

[This message has been edited by Tanneur99 (edited 11-27-2002 @ 07:58 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Dark_Aro
Squire
posted 12-07-02 10:37 PM CT (US)     36 / 51       
That looks like a very graphic game. When I try to download it, it seems to go to an error page in German. Did I go to the wrong thing? (I went to the Official Website link)

DARK_ARO ¤¤¤¤¤ Dragon Gaming Design Network | Age of Kings Heaven Forums ¤¤¤¤¤
Dragon Gaming Design Network Administrator | Multiplayer Custom Scenario Night Member
dark_aro@dgdn.net | "Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow."
My Projects: AoK-- When Darkness Stands Still ~40% Robin Hood Legends ~17%
My Recommendations

[This message has been edited by Dark_Aro (edited 12-07-2002 @ 10:39 PM).]

Gordon Farrell
Squire
(id: SSSI_Gordon Farrell)
posted 12-08-02 03:27 PM CT (US)     37 / 51       
I can't help, I didn't dl it. I got the cd from Computer Games Magazine. Sorry!
Deathmatch
Squire
(id: Darkmaster)
posted 12-08-02 03:40 PM CT (US)     38 / 51       
You can also get it here:

Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood


-1
Dark_Aro
Squire
posted 12-08-02 04:02 PM CT (US)     39 / 51       
Oooo... thank you.

DARK_ARO ¤¤¤¤¤ Dragon Gaming Design Network | Age of Kings Heaven Forums ¤¤¤¤¤
Dragon Gaming Design Network Administrator | Multiplayer Custom Scenario Night Member
dark_aro@dgdn.net | "Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow."
My Projects: AoK-- When Darkness Stands Still ~40% Robin Hood Legends ~17%
My Recommendations
Gordon Farrell
Squire
(id: SSSI_Gordon Farrell)
posted 12-09-02 09:54 AM CT (US)     40 / 51       
Have you played it, Darkmaster? I'm curious what your opinion of it is.
Ingo van Thiel
Squire
posted 12-09-02 10:29 AM CT (US)     41 / 51       
I've got it. The graphics are fantastic and very atmospheric, and the tactical tasks quite interesting; it's got a Commandos kind of style.

What I liked less is that many missions take place on the same maps; that is, you go back to the same castles many times with different missions. The only changes were that you'd sometimes see the castles by day, by night, fog or different weather conditions. Personally, I very much preferred the predecessor "Desperadoes" by Spellbound, which is set in the Wild West, has a different map for every level, more memorable individual characters (IMO) and a new story.

All in all, an entertaining game.

Ingo

HG Luke
Squire
(id: Cherub Luke)
posted 12-09-02 10:43 AM CT (US)     42 / 51       
Desperados is fantastic. I was addicted to it for quite some time.
Gonna check this Robin Hood game.
Gordon Farrell
Squire
(id: SSSI_Gordon Farrell)
posted 12-09-02 10:55 AM CT (US)     43 / 51       
Ingo: Not everyone minds repeating a map... although, as I recall, you've taken points off my reviews for it!!!!
Deathmatch
Squire
(id: Darkmaster)
posted 12-09-02 11:48 AM CT (US)     44 / 51       
I downloaded it right after the names "Robin Hood" and "Sherwood" were mentioned .

That game isn't very fast-paced, but interesting. I've played Commandos Behind Enemy Line, and it was fun, but not fast paced. I liked the beauty of the map, mostly. The maps in Commandos weren't as detailed as the maps in this game. It was most awe-inspiring, very realistic and detailed. The different events that happened all of a sudden, like the woman running around here and there, screaming, surprised me. So many different features, like the talisman (the clover), entering houses for refuge, scaling walls, knocking guards unconscious, throwing wasp-nests, and this isn't even close to half of what I experienced when I played it. I don't play those sorts of strategy games much, but that sure was an eye-opener. It was pretty difficult, too. I had to restart several times, since Robin kept on dying (until I figured out that F1 can save the game ).


I'm definitely going to buy it, after I have a better computer, since I like to play on the highest res., with all graphic components and my current computer lags when they're turned on .


-1
Tanneur99
HG Alumnus
posted 12-09-02 12:50 PM CT (US)     45 / 51       
@ Gordon

Quote: “Not everyone minds repeating a map... although, as I recall, you've taken points off my reviews for it!!!!”

It was CerberusXXL, who took points, two to be exact, for the repeating map off. He made that valid as a flaw for map design and playability. Ingo only deducted one for map design.

I certainly do not mind repeating a map for a campaign.

Lately I reviewed The New World by crasher, who used the same map for the first and second scenario. Repeating the map was demanded by the story, in the first scenario you had to explore the map, to conquer in the second. The Coming of the Unborn King played on a reality map, England. Obviously the coast line had to stay the same and so did some of the places like London, Tingtagel castle at the Atlantic ocean etc, also your map changed from each and every scenario to the next, for example the place for the joust never repeated and especially the northern part changed according to the locations involved. Finally the scenarios did not use the same locations and if, variation was guaranteed. In one scenario the path was used to Tingtagel castle, which was blocked for the scenarios to follow by rocks. In another scenario the entrance from the water side was used. I had to use Marco Polo to see some areas which were repetitive and here we come to the rule that we only rate what we see.

There is another argument why I do not mind “repeating a map”, it is the fact that a single scenario campaigns can get the highest rating for just one, not even slightly altered map. Why should a designer be punished for entertaining us with more than one scenario?


Ingo van Thiel
Squire
posted 12-09-02 01:44 PM CT (US)     46 / 51       
He he... while I was writing my post, I was sure you'd hear an echo from my Pendragon Saga review and pull my leg about it, Gordon. Nice to see you here, btw!

Ingo

[This message has been edited by Ingo van Thiel (edited 12-09-2002 @ 01:52 PM).]

AnastasiaKafka
Squire
posted 12-09-02 06:13 PM CT (US)     47 / 51       

Quote:

There is another argument why I do not mind “repeating a map”, it is the fact that a single scenario campaigns can get the highest rating for just one, not even slightly altered map. Why should a designer be punished for entertaining us with more than one scenario?

Good argument Tanneur...my sentiments exactly.


"I take it that this is the Anastasia Scud pines for?" - Epic Commander
"What Ana said. Use sugar and the whip." - aka the Pilot
"I think you will realize the emphasis was on Ana and Cake." - Monk
Ingo van Thiel
Squire
posted 12-10-02 02:43 AM CT (US)     48 / 51       
A good map is like a good story or a good joke for me: Great to hear the first time, but if I get to hear it several times in a row, with only slightly different wording, the effect wears off a little.

Repeating the same map does two things: On one hand, as I wrote back then, it can give a story a sense of continuity. And it saves us designers a lot of work, of course. On the other hand, it takes away one important thing that makes custom scenarios so enjoyable: To discover the unknown. We, the designers, do not only create challenges, we also create worlds for people to discover while they play. And discovering a new landscape while one plays has always been one of the biggest thrills that the Age designs have to offer. If a campaign repeats its maps, other aspects such as story, atmosphere and gameplay might still excel; but the thrill of discovering a new world isn't there anymore.

That being said, my opinion of the Pendragon Saga is as high as it has always been. But that doesn't mean I don't like a good discussion...

Ingo

[This message has been edited by Ingo van Thiel (edited 12-10-2002 @ 02:46 AM).]

Tanneur99
HG Alumnus
posted 12-10-02 08:30 AM CT (US)     49 / 51       
@ Ingo

Quote: “But that doesn't mean I don't like a good discussion...”

Yes and it has been always great discussing with you and here again our opinions are practically the same, we just draw another conclusion. I support everything you said and I wish I could have found your words when I discussed the revealing of a map with Anastasia.

I deducted a point in my review of Gaiku Airashii for revealing the map after four minutes, taking the pleasure of exploring away. I also lower my rating when a designer makes you walk a known path back and forth; and I do not use Marco Polo because it would take that thrill, to discover a new landscape away, as you put it.

Where I do not agree, is to apply what was said to the Pendragon Saga.

Quote myself from post 45:

“The Coming of the Unborn King played on a reality map, England. Obviously the coast line had to stay the same and so did some of the places like London, Tingtagel castle at the Atlantic ocean etc, also your map changed from each and every scenario to the next, for example the place for the joust never repeated and especially the northern part changed according to the locations involved. Finally the scenarios did not use the same locations and if, variation was guaranteed. In one scenario the path was used to Tingtagel castle, which was blocked for the scenarios to follow by rocks. In another scenario the entrance from the water side was used. I had to use Marco Polo to see some areas which were repetitive and here we come to the rule that we only rate what we see.

Unfortunately I deleted my saved games of The Coming of the Unborn King, but as we both decided to stay here for a while I might play it again and send you the saved games shortly before the victory signal of every scenario. I did compare these when I wrote my review. The mini maps showed that the scenarios used mostly different parts of the map, conserving “one of the biggest thrills that the Age designs has to offer”, the “discovering of a new landscape”. Where the action was in the same place the map changed, reference again to the joust, the location was, other than in Ulio, used only once. Gordon had a realistic approach; we discussed the realistic approach of ES, with his reality map. The castle of Tingtagel was in every scenario the same, the same applies for Urug’s castle in Ulio.

I only recall one situation where Gordon intentionally used for a short time the same parts of the map. Quote from my review: “As you’re given location names, which you should remember from the earlier scenarios, you‘re getting into problems by searching in the wrong places.” I had reloads; the thrill of the game play did not make me miss the thrill of discovery in that sequence. To stay out of too much trouble, if you remember where to go, was a creative way to balance the scenario.

I did not realize that the map was repeating during game play and had to use Marco Polo to see that, which should not influence our rating. The Coming of the Unborn King deserves the highest rating, especially the map it is one of the best, creative maps at the black smith, creating the perfect atmosphere for the Dark Age.

Quote from my review:

“This is art, not map design. Gordon Farrell is creating an atmosphere, which is the Dark Age and so is his map. Somebody with his skills knows that shores have flat water. He uses the dark blue colour for his mysterious painting. Where there is a harbour, he is practically forced to use a lighter colour, but with economy, not to ruin anything. His landscapes as the towns follow the same rules. Something heavy, depressing lays over the scenes, which excludes the use of eye-candy. All four scenarios play on the same map, in England and Wales. A lot of research, time and effort went into this, as all locations are in the right places. There is no way, that you can make a different map of England, with its historical places, for every scenario.”

Quote: “And it saves us designers a lot of work, of course.”

Considering the research to place the locations of the Saga correctly on the map, I do not believe that Gordon wanted to save work. It took me some time to check if the were in the right places.

Quote from my review:

“The Places: -Tintagel Castle is situated on the Atlantic Ocean in Cornwell (look for Tingtagel Head and the town of Tintagel). -London. -Sir Ectors estate, Northern Welsh, west of Bala at the river Dee. -Canterbury. -Pendragon Castle (before Uther became King and governed from the London Castle, he stayed in Pendragon Castle in Westmoreland, south of Cumberland). -Garlot (land of King Nentres of Garlot, married to Igraine’s sister Elaine). -Merlin's land, which are the woods of Northern Welsh, today Cumberland. -Lothian, West- and East-Lothian around Edinburgh.”

Ingo van Thiel
Squire
posted 12-10-02 11:43 AM CT (US)     50 / 51       
Tanneur:

If I remember correctly, Gordon only had two weeks time to complete the whole campaign because of the King Arthur's castle contest. I respect him all the more for coming up with such a great campaign in such a short time. Also, he agreed with my points about the map design back then. While I respect your view of looking at the map design in the Pendragon, and while I find your review a joy to read, I do not fully agree with it. The Pendragon Saga is still as much an excellent 4.8 for me as The Last Viking Prince is a full 5.0 in my view.

As for your comparison with the Ulug castle, we could also throw in the Last Viking Prince, Book I, which I gave a full 5 for map design - although you would see some parts of the maps again. Or also the Last Viking Prince Book II, which I never reviewed. Now you might ask: What did the map design in the Last Viking Prince series have that I didn't find in the Pendragon Saga?

The answer is: One one hand, the Viking Prince maps were much more detailed, and yet found the perfect balance because they weren't cluttered with eye-candy as so many designs out there today.

But even more important: In the Viking Prince, I found adjacent worlds.

For instance, you arrive at Constantinople in the first scenario of the Last Viking Prince, Book II. On the first map, Constantinople is in the low bottom corner. When you have played the scenario, you know one half of Gordon's world. In the next scenario, you start out in Constantinople, but it's set in a different corner of the map: Now the whole other part of Gordon's world, the South West of Constantinople unfolds for you while you play. The city of Constantinople is a small connection to the other map. The 2nd map still shows you where you arrived, and a the same time it opens out into a new, unknown world - one that wasn't on the first map. This did not only give me the thrill of discovering a new landscape. It also linked the scenarios much more closely together for me; thus, the Viking Prince series maintained Gordon's sense of continuity that was also in the Pendragon Saga, but without falling into the trap of repetition. Not only do you get a new map, you also know where it belongs; and you know the other world that it's linked to. The further you go, the more of the Viking Prince's world unfolds.

That, together with all the other categories, still makes the maps in the Last Viking Prince belong to my all-time favorites.

Ingo


[edited out a double phrase, the message is the same]

[This message has been edited by Ingo van Thiel (edited 12-10-2002 @ 02:29 PM).]

Tanneur99
HG Alumnus
posted 12-10-02 01:47 PM CT (US)     51 / 51       
@ Ingo

Quote: "If I remember correctly, Gordon only had two weeks time to complete the whole campaign because of the King Arthur's castle contest.”

Yes, so let’s call it a stroke of genius and if I remember correctly, Gordon won that contest.

Your last post brings our views closer together in the sense that I understand better why the map design has to be a 4.0 for you. I agree that the maps of the Viking Prince were more detailed and technically better. There is something else about the map of the Unborn King, creating that atmosphere I was talking about, touching you. These feelings went into my rating, the maps were perfect for the scenario, more effort, eye-candy, ameliorations would not have done any good. You can not change what is perfect. Gordon mailed me in spring about his plans to adapt the Unborn King to a TC-version, below an extract of my answer.

Quote: “The Unborn King arises feelings, it holds you captivated the whole day, it goes right into your heart, it has a soul. I fear that even though the campaign will be technically better and the story more authentic, that it will loose this unique touch, which I can’t even explain.”

This is why The Pendragon Saga belongs to my all-time favourites.

Ralf

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