Hello. To start off with, I would like to thank you, Hidden Path, for supporting this great game even after 14 years. Now, My goal here is to express the messages of the whole of the scenario design and modding community at Age of Kings Heaven - which I am happy to say has the largest and most prolific scenario design/modding community - where greats such as Ingo Van Thiel (the author of Ulio) Kor (the creator of Age of Chivalry - the first successful complete conversion of AoK:TC), Matt_LiVecchi and Pulkit (creators of Tales of Middle Earth, the first successful complete conversion to Middle Earth) and the userpatch team have worked and collaborated on numerous projects. Of course, there are other amazing designers whom you might have heard of - Lord Basse, for one, the creator of the Gwyndlegard Series, is considered one of the best designers we've seen - And Panel, author of The Successor Series - great. I hope I speak for all of us when I say thank you.
I do believe that this community (the scenario design and modding community) is often neglected in the face of the multiplayer aspect. The multiplayer, like any RTS, is often fast-paced and competetive, but unlike some other RTS's, it can be slow and casual, where no player can really get the upper hand, resulting in 2-3 hour long games where the player almost becomes sentimentally attached to his troops. I find this to be one of AoK:TC's defining points - where the gameplay is that elastic and flexible. This makes it easy to create new experiences in the scenario editor, whether they be the classic blood multiplayer map, or an RPG designed for 2 to 4 people, or a new single-player campaign like "The Relics of Athalën" designed and developed by Lord Basse, as the conclusion to his Gwyndlegard series. However, I always see this community as ignored by the developers, who focus on the multiplayer - and rightly, as it is what most people enjoy. But if we do not support the design niche, then AoK's defining feature, it's versatility may actually be lost, and the game might sink in stature from what many consider to be the best RTS of all time, to something closer to "Starcraft" or AoE III.
I hope that these new developers, who are breathing much-needed new life into this game, will continue to pay attention to our little niche.
Now, I hate to sound like that whine-y kid we all know who just begs for things, but there are a few items which could both make developing user-content easier, and modding much more streamlined. I'll list them here.
1. full steam workshop support for all .dat files. (I know that as of today, .dat files are NOT implemented into steam workshop. I assume this is because of Out Of Sync errors, which are easily solvable by using the userpatch's "games" folder system where new mods can be stored with all their respective files, outside of the main game files.)
2. full documentation of the data files (or as complete as could be) so we know what all those unknown variables are.
Thanks again for your time, and I really do appreciate the effort you've put into a game this old.
On behalf of those who create mods for Age of Empires II, or have done so in the past, I would humbly request the full support of more advanced levels of modification for Age of Empires II HD than appear to be offered at the moment.
We feel that not supporting the modification would leave a large part of the modification community out in the cold - a part of the community that has created some of the most popular content for the original game. These mods include, in chronological order,
Furthermore, mods such as these use more advanced data editing techniques that appear to not be supported in the AoK: HD Steam Workshop in its present state. I am talking of changes such as entirely editing civilization statistics, adding new units and graphics, rather than just replacing them, or even adding entirely new civilizations for people to download and play!
As a modding community, we were happily surprised by news of the development of AoK HD and we look forward to moving our projects to this release. It offers lots of opportunities and might allow us to reach out to a much greater number of players than ever before. But to do so, it is of the utmost importance that we can actually port our projects to AoK HD without losing any features. This would not only benefit the larger modding projects, but also the smaller ones, as many scenarios now come with custom mod packs that also change a great many core game features.
In order for AoK HD to be of any benefit to the modding community and the part of the player base interested in discovering mods, it must at least support the mods that have already been made. Even better, it could allow us to do a lot more - and do it in a more straightforward manner than the original game allowed us to do. But if, to play the most recent mods, we actually need to discard AoK HD and dust off our old CD-roms again, this release would be a setback rather than an opportunity.
In brief, we want the following:
- To not just alter or replace game assets, but to add to them by modifying data files
- To perform more advanced modifications, such as adding new civilizations
- To be able to distribute these modified assets through the Steam workshop, to the benefit of both the player base and the modding community.
First of all, I want to thank you for updating this great game we all love so much. TO see Age of Empires II updated for modern operating systems and with renewed multiplayer support is truly a dream come true. I already have preordered my copy, and I trust that the majority of the competitive community will embrace this remastered version of their favorite classic with open arms.
That said, there is another, equally passionate portion of the community which have done their own part to keep this great game alive for so many years. We are the scenario design and modding community, and we've been customizing and creating for this game for over a decade. We've built a massive, nearly inexhaustible library of mods, scenarios, and campaigns. Some of our more talented members have even built modding tools to help us in our endeavors. Years after the rest of the world forgot about this game, we're still here and as productive as ever.
We desperately want to embrace this HD remake, but we also want to continue with our favorite hobby: creating custom content for Age of Empires II. Proper steam workshop integration is of the utmost importance to us. To that end, we humbly request you enable the following:
1. Full access to modifying all game data files. These include all the .drs and .dat files, as well as the .dll language files.
2. The ability to play online with these modified files against others using the same modification. Several mod makers have spent countless hours optimizing the multiplayer experience their mod provides.
3. The ability to share these game files seamlessly over steam workshop.
If we do not have these features, our mods will not transfer over, and I fear the community may splinter into those playing the original, and those playing the remastered version. This is an outcome no one wishes for. If, however, the modding community is properly supported, we can bring the same longevity and depth to the remake of Age of Empires II that we brought to the original.
We understand you are hard at work on this great game, and we appreciate the time you took in reading these suggestions and requests.
When the news reached me that Age of Empires II, my favourite game of all time, was going to get an HD update and become fully functioning with new systems, I was very excited to say the least. I have pre-ordered my copy of the game, and probably added at least 10 views to the official trailer on YouTube. For me, as for lots of people, Age of Empires II isn't just any game to play through and then move on from. Beyond the hours and hours of fun that playing multiplayer with your friends provides, the game’s fantastic scenario editor and modding opportunities have really kept the game alive for me, as well as the numerous fansites dedicated to the game around the web. Being able to create custom content, and spread these creations to others who share the same passion, has given the game great longevity. With official support for the modding community, as well as old and new players enjoying the game in the same place, its longevity could be extended for many years to come.
It is therefore worrying to see that the HD edition will exclude key modding elements from the Steam Workshop, namely the possibility to upload and share modded data files. Without data editing, modding is merely a matter of cosmetics. Many of the most downloaded mods over the years rely heavily on data editing for their uniqueness and custom complexity. Data editing allows you to do anything from creating new units of your own choosing, to completely rearranging technology trees, or just add invisible flying bananas to the game. The possibilities are endless, and the more options the game gives you, the longer you end up playing and customizing it.
While the tools for data editing to a large degree already exist, not allowing their distribution through the Steam Workshop would risk splintering the AoK community, leaving modders and many scenario designers to not bother to buy the HD edition, and keep designing for the old version. That would be a shame, as most of us are very excited to bring our passion into the HD edition.
On behalf of the large community of scenario designer and modders out there, I would humbly request that uploading data files become possible in the Workshop.
My story begins back in 1998, when my dad and I bought Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings. We probably went through the entire campaign in about 3 weeks. I still remember iconic moments from my childhood such as the the simultaneous scream of "YES!!!" when my dad and I destroyed the Jin wonder in Genghis Khan Scenario 3: Into China with 2 years left on their victory countdown. Or when we planted the flag on the hill of Castillon in Joan of Arc scenario 6 after being frustrated for hours by longbowmen that outranged our castles and Shrewsbury's hordes of capped rams and cavaliers. We liked AOK so much that when the Conquerors Expansion came out, we bought it the day it was released and went through that campaign in 2-3 weeks. AOK and AoC sparked in me a love for history that led me to read countless books on topics ranging from Templars to Tannenberg, and to pursue a goal of a college major in Medieval History.
Fast forward to 2009, by which time I had also played Age of Mythology and Age of Empires III. Whenever I played AoC, I would play the ES campaigns or I would dabble in the editor, creating scenarios about Robin Hood, Siegfried, and the Vikings. I had no knowledge of triggers, and thus my scenarios were all B&D. Ironic, seeing as my favorite scenarios now are FF or RPG. A Google search of "Age of Empires II triggers" led me to zyxzomma100's online guide to triggers, which suggested I try out some custom scenarios at a website called Age of Kings Heaven. I lurked the forums and played most of the high-rated custom content, which helped me improve as a designer, and joined AOKH in late 2011 (after a brief hiatus during which I helped the Civ4 community develop RFC:Europe).
I joined in late 2011 to design a scenario for the "Halloween Horror Contest" of that year, and have maintained a constant presence in the SD&M forum ever since. In the HHC11, I got my first taste of data editing when fellow forummer Devestator entered "Demon Town", which had a custom data file. Although I told myself "one step at a time" and decided to improve my design skills before attempting to mod the game, I was awed by the power of modding. With tools such as Advanced Genie Editor 3 and Turtle Pack you are given limitless possibilities on how to alter the game. These tools and their predecessors have allowed fellow AoK/AoC players Kor, Matt, and Cysion to produce such incredible mods as Age of Chivalry: Hegemony, Tales of Middle Earth, and Age of Forgotten Empires, a project I joined last November just as a (much improved) scenario designer.
If there is anything AoK/AoC owes its continued existence and legacy to, it is the strong multiplayer community and the SD&M community here at AOKH. Both of these communities rely on the ability to mod the game, whether through incredible innovations such as Userpatch or through custom data files and custom scenarios. As modding becomes more and more important (and easier) in the AOKH community, more discoveries will be made and more incredible custom content will be created. The simple fact is that there are things you can accomplish through modding that you just can't do with the normal game, and modding gives us unlimited potential in that regard. AoK has been around since 1997, and with the help of modding, the AoK/AoC community can and will grow even stronger over the next few years.
If AOK:HD is released without mod support, then the fear we have is that the AoK/AoC community will be divided between those who buy and use the new HD version and those who continue to use their current copies of the game due to a desire to mod the game and edit data files. We are all incredibly grateful for your effort at remastering our favorite game, and we want this to be as much of a win-win situation as possible, as providing mod support will make us all jubilant and doubtlessly raise your sales!
And so I would like to reiterate my fellow forummers' request for full mod support through the Steam Workshop, in the hope that we can carry on creating custom content in your upcoming remastered version of the game. The last request I have is the built in ability through the interface to switch between AoC, Age of Chivalry: Hegemony, Tales of Middle Earth, and Age of Forgotten Empires, so we can play or favorite game and its most popular mods with the click of a button.
Again, thank you so much for taking the time to create AOK:HD and listen to our requests.
I've been a modder of Age of Empires II: The Conquerors Expansion for a good number of years. The game has never ceased to provide entertainment and a lot of this is due to the sheer amount of possibilities available through modding the game data. Among my achievements in my time playing Age of Empires II: The Conquerors - I have been recognised for co-creating two award winning scenarios ("Silent Evil" - A 4-player survival RPG taking place in a map-covering city full of zombies, and "The Seas of Egressa" - a 6 player diplomacy-strategy map with each nation having a unique start and play restrictions.), being one of the head members of a known custom scenario and modification design team ("Black Forest Studios"), unlocking various possibilities with the game's engine through data modifications, being a helpful assist to players who are struggling with scenario design, trigger work and data modification and I have also created a large-scale modification which added hundreds of new units and objects to the game - aimed specifically at scenario designers.
As you can tell from this, I love to blow my own trumpet. More importantly - data modifications are a large part of what keeps the game alive today. It's come to the attention of myself and other designers and mod creators that the Steam Workshop support for Age of Empires II: HD will, so far, NOT be supporting data modifications. This is puzzling.
Data modifications can not be used in any way to cheat in multiplayer games unless ALL players have the correct files installed - so there is no way for mods to crop up on the Steam Workshop that would allow players to cheat and win on multiplayer games. This leaves us wondering "Why"? - Why have you decided to not support what is one of the main attractions to this classic RTS?
Highly popular modifications such as "Age of Chivalry: Hegemony" and "Tales of Middle Earth" require data files to be altered and changed. With the Steam Workshop, the process of installing these modifications would be a simple click-of-a-button. If you allowed data modifications to be installed through the Steam Workshop - you would not only be saving many, many players a lot of time when it comes to installing modifications, but you would also be receiving many thanks from many developers. A third positive? Think of how attractive the game would be if you advertised "full mod support". These three words can sell almost ANY game - and one of the main things that keeps Age of Empires II alive is the extent of possibilities through modding.
It is with this that I'm not just asking politely, but almost begging you to please, please include Data mod support in the Steam Workshop for Age of Empires II: HD.
From myself, all of us at Black Forest Studios and from many members of the Age of Kings Heavengames community - Thank you for what you have done with Age of Empires II: HD. We hope that you acknowledge our requests and take in our suggestions.
Yeah, the republican party is pretty much one big schizophrenic ball of contradictions nowadays. - Ax_man1
double post for milestone, then relentlessly bash on the community for the hell of it... stay classy thymole. - Lurker
[This message has been edited by CarolKarine (edited 03-25-2013 @ 03:05 PM).]