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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Discussion » Steam Workshop: You help us, help you, help us all
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Topic Subject:Steam Workshop: You help us, help you, help us all
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Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 04-13-13 03:39 AM CT (US)         
Dear community,

The Steam Workshop has made it easier than ever to share modifications and scenarios. This comfort however does come at a price. Recently we have noticed a number of cases where users uploaded works without specific consent of the original author.
Though Steam gives us the option to report such files, we have yet to see the actual removal of said files. Which is where you, the community, come in.

What we want you to do is to report any files of which it is clear that the uploader was not the original author or was not given permission to share the files. Additionally, it would be great if you would post links to files you suspect are cases of plagiarism. We hope that a mass-reporting of plagiarized files will lead to a faster response of Steam Support.

Please encourage other users to refrain from uploading files they did not create. If you feel that a certain excellent file from the Blacksmith is missing in the Steam Workshop, please alert a moderator and we will deal with it.


On behalf of the Age of Kings Moderation Team,

Dead_End


Works uploaded with author's consent
Aro - The War of Britain
Cilibinarii - Saladin Climatic I & II
Cilibinarii - Spanish Invasion of South-America on a 10 x 10
Crasher - Attack at Dawn
Crasher - Immortal Prey Prologue - Eye Of The Beholder
Felix Waters - A Victoria Crossing
Felix Waters - England, France and Great Hill
Ingo van Thiel - Gyda's Challenge
Ingo van Thiel - Ulio
Ingo van Thiel - When the Wheel Breaks ~ Part 1 ~, Epilogue
sSc_Cobra007 - Battle of Falkirk
sSc_Cobra007 - Forgotten RPG
Stephen Richards - The Battle of Edington

[This message has been edited by Dead_End (edited 04-13-2013 @ 06:56 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Basse
Squire
posted 04-13-13 04:48 AM CT (US)     1 / 142       
I feel that as long as the publisher specifically credits the original author, it should be fine. A few people have uploaded some of my maps, and I kindly asked them to remove it or specifically credit me as the author. These cases ended with them removing the files, since they felt it to be more appropriate if the original author (me) uploaded the files instead, but I would've been just as happy with a small note crediting me for all the hard work
panel
Squire
posted 04-13-13 04:58 AM CT (US)     2 / 142       
The problem there is, most people don't want someone else to upload their work, credited or not, without their prior consent. You will agree that seems like a lack of politesse to put it mildly.

It's pretty easy, everyone who wishes to upload someone else's work should first contact that person and obtain their consent, and if said consent is not given then they should abstain.

The Felix method so to speak.

[This message has been edited by panel (edited 04-13-2013 @ 05:01 AM).]

aoe_scout
Squire
posted 04-13-13 06:05 AM CT (US)     3 / 142       
I agree, especially for more complicated works, it shouldn't be done without the author's consent. After all, in most cases it's easy enough to download them from here, instead of Steam WS.

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Devious Dev
Official Professional Qualified Noob
(id: dragonslayermcmx)
posted 04-13-13 06:42 AM CT (US)     4 / 142       
You see, the thing is, that many authors of great classics are no longer around, so contacting will be a lot more difficult.

D E V A S T A T O R
Paradise Lost ~ Scored 1st in the ACSC12! ~ Voted Best Cinematic Scenario of 2013 ~ Official Rating: 4.7
Demon Town ~ Scored 1st in the HHC11! ~ "...as unique as an AoK scenario can get." - Panel ~ Official Rating: 4.2

Proud Member of BlackForestStudios
My AoE2 Youtube Channel
Feliks
Squire
(id: Joshooarh)
posted 04-13-13 06:51 AM CT (US)     5 / 142       
You see, the thing is, that many authors of great classics are no longer around, so contacting will be a lot more difficult.
Tell me about it.

I've e-mailed thirty forummers already. I've heard back from nine so far. I've even been in contact with people who may possibly know some of the people I'm trying to get ahold of; AnastasiaKafka has been particularly elusive.
The_Biz
Squire
posted 04-13-13 07:05 AM CT (US)     6 / 142       
taking these down isn't good for the game or the authors or the modding community...

as long as the proper credit is given, i don't see the harm.

obviously, if the original author speaks up he should get whatever he wants but if someone is not here then let people play his games....

[This message has been edited by The_Biz (edited 04-13-2013 @ 07:05 AM).]

Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 04-13-13 07:22 AM CT (US)     7 / 142       
taking these down isn't good for the game or the authors or the modding community...
I fail to understand how having someone downloading a file off our downloads-system and passing it off as his own at the Steam Workshop is good for the community.
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 04-13-13 11:48 AM CT (US)     8 / 142       
I can say by experience that most authors will have no problem with this sort of thing as long as you make an effort to reach out to them and of course credit them. I cite my translation of a few AgeArena scenarios (some are a collaboration between my translation and the design of aMa, who is still active. Another that I am translating is by Great Emperor, who is inactive, but aMa has given me permission to translate it and upload it crediting Emperor, as Emperor's email on AOKH and AgeArena gives an error, indicating that it is no longer a functioning address). In these cases, I have gained permission to translate and upload them (I'm assuming that the blacksmith mods will change ownership of the files to their respective authors once I upload them).

Personally, were I to become inactive and unresponsive, I would have no issue with somebody uploading my work on Steam as long as they credited me. I think I may be preaching to the choir and speaking for most people on this one, but as long as nobody tried to pass my work off as their own, I would be fine with it.

However, I realize that everybody thinks differently, so in conclusion:

1. I think that if the original author is still around, then it is easy enough to contact them and gain their permission, and is certainly necessary.

2. If they are inactive, then you should still try to contact them, but I think that if you get no response after a while, then it is acceptable to upload the file while giving them full credit! If they happen to see it later and not want it uploaded, or get back to your email after many months (after you assumed inactivity and uploaded it) stating that they would rather you not upload it, then you can always take it down, no harm done.

Everybody's thoughts?

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 04-13-13 12:26 PM CT (US)     9 / 142       
Absolutely. We're targeting plagiarism with this thread: passing off works by other people as your own, or submitting a file without giving credit to the author whatsoever.

As said earlier, notify one of the mods when you feel a certain work from the Blacksmith should be uploaded at the Steam Workshop.

Now, let's stop this discussion and focus on the on the main purpose of the thread.
Devious Dev
Official Professional Qualified Noob
(id: dragonslayermcmx)
posted 04-13-13 01:29 PM CT (US)     10 / 142       
I absolutely agree with Sam there.

D E V A S T A T O R
Paradise Lost ~ Scored 1st in the ACSC12! ~ Voted Best Cinematic Scenario of 2013 ~ Official Rating: 4.7
Demon Town ~ Scored 1st in the HHC11! ~ "...as unique as an AoK scenario can get." - Panel ~ Official Rating: 4.2

Proud Member of BlackForestStudios
My AoE2 Youtube Channel
The_Biz
Squire
posted 04-13-13 06:06 PM CT (US)     11 / 142       
most of the uploads give credit to the original author

you aren't targeting plagiarism. you're targeting uploading without permission when an author is AFK
Feliks
Squire
(id: Joshooarh)
posted 04-14-13 04:33 AM CT (US)     12 / 142       
you aren't targeting plagiarism. you're targeting uploading without permission when an author is AFK
Yes (although also plagiarism).
Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 04-14-13 05:20 AM CT (US)     13 / 142       
most of the uploads give credit to the original author
No, they don't. And I would appreciate it if you dropped the subject and returned to the purpose of this thread.
panel
Squire
posted 04-14-13 08:19 AM CT (US)     14 / 142       
you aren't targeting plagiarism. you're targeting uploading without permission when an author is AFK
One is only slightly worse than the other. And none are desirable.

If there's a file that you want to be available on steam but you can't get hold of the author and ask him for permission.. that's what staff are here for. Just drop us an e-mail. We all want great scenarios to be available to a larger public, that's what this is all about. We just want to do it the *right* way. Felix has been working his ass off trying to obtain permission for files such as Ingo van Thiel's to be uploaded.

Those scenarios/campaigns/mods/whatever might've taken years to be created, the least you or anyone else who wants to upload them can do is save a few hours of a day to try and contact the guy who made them. That's a minimum of courtesy required in such instances.

BTW a week or so ago, one my own files was uploaded to steam without me being notified and without any kind of credit given. Maybe if this will happen to you, you'll be a bit less critical of such initiatives.

[This message has been edited by panel (edited 04-14-2013 @ 11:08 AM).]

The_Biz
Squire
posted 04-14-13 06:40 PM CT (US)     15 / 142       
mirroring files on a different server is nothing close to plagiarism. stop presenting it as such

it's like saying anyone who hosts a multiplayer game and distributes a map is plagiarizing because the author of the map never gave explicit consent...

it's a download link. deal with it.

go after the people presenting the work as their own. go after the people who aren't giving credit to the original author.

stop trolling the people who are just bringing better gameplay to new audiences

if (and that's a very big IF) you get one of the original authors to upload their own work, then make a case for removing the "unofficial" version so that only a single version remains

[This message has been edited by The_Biz (edited 04-14-2013 @ 06:40 PM).]

Leif Ericson
Seraph Emeritus
posted 04-14-13 08:21 PM CT (US)     16 / 142       
I think there's a bit of misunderstanding here.

If someone were to upload a scenario to the Steam Workshop that someone else made, most people will assume the person who added the scenario to the Steam Workshop is the original author. So, by neglecting to credit the original author, they are virtually presenting the work as their own, even if they don't intend to. This is where the problem lies. Ideally, every work uploaded to the Steam Workshop that isn't uploaded by the original author should credit the original author. It's also best that unoriginal works be uploaded by a recognized entity like AoKH. Having AoKH upload such works will also help publicize such works, at least for people who are familiar with AoKH.

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panel
Squire
posted 04-15-13 03:20 AM CT (US)     17 / 142       
stop trolling the people who are just bringing better gameplay to new audiences
did you at least read the entirety of my post? I hate repeating myself, but nobody forbids you to upload something as long as you have the author's permission. If NOT, contact us and we'll try our best to solve the problem, we have more infrastructure for that (access to email addresses and such). That's the right thing to do when you're dealing with files originally uploaded to AOKH. If you're talking about maps obtained from other locations, I don't really care about that. And multiplayer maps are obviously distributed much more freely, the discussion here is mainly about single player and modpacks (if you would be just a little bit more familiar with the SD&Modding community you would know this is our main area of work). That doesn't mean people shouldn't credit the authors of multiplayer scenarios in the same way.
BF_Tanks
Squire
posted 04-15-13 04:16 AM CT (US)     18 / 142       
Silent Evil and Seas of Egressa are already up on the workshop. As are a couple of tweak mods by myself

Proud Member of Black Forest Studios
Co-creator of Silent Evil - Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009
and The Seas of Egressa - Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010
Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 04-19-13 00:46 AM CT (US)     19 / 142       
Someone uploaded Lord Basse's Sagropireia. Please report it using the button on the page.
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 04-19-13 09:28 AM CT (US)     20 / 142       
Done.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
Devious Dev
Official Professional Qualified Noob
(id: dragonslayermcmx)
posted 04-19-13 11:20 AM CT (US)     21 / 142       
I do not have AoE2 HD yet, so i can't flag or download anything, but can any of you compare THIS with My file, and see if they are the same?

D E V A S T A T O R
Paradise Lost ~ Scored 1st in the ACSC12! ~ Voted Best Cinematic Scenario of 2013 ~ Official Rating: 4.7
Demon Town ~ Scored 1st in the HHC11! ~ "...as unique as an AoK scenario can get." - Panel ~ Official Rating: 4.2

Proud Member of BlackForestStudios
My AoE2 Youtube Channel
Jan dc
Squire
(id: Den cekke)
posted 04-19-13 04:52 PM CT (US)     22 / 142       
Didn't you get those files yourself from youtube? Wonder if it's possible to copyright a file which isn't yours.
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 04-19-13 08:03 PM CT (US)     23 / 142       
You can flag, favorite, rate, or report any file on the workshop, so long as you have a Steam account. I haven't been able to get AoK:HD yet either, though that will change when I return home tomorrow

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
Devious Dev
Official Professional Qualified Noob
(id: dragonslayermcmx)
posted 04-20-13 06:29 AM CT (US)     24 / 142       
Didn't you get those files yourself from youtube? Wonder if it's possible to copyright a file which isn't yours.
I did get them from Youtube, but who said that i wanted to copyright them? I was just curious
You can flag, favorite, rate, or report any file on the workshop, so long as you have a Steam account. I haven't been able to get AoK:HD yet either, though that will change when I return home tomorrow
I can't, probably because i do not have any games on my steam account yet

D E V A S T A T O R
Paradise Lost ~ Scored 1st in the ACSC12! ~ Voted Best Cinematic Scenario of 2013 ~ Official Rating: 4.7
Demon Town ~ Scored 1st in the HHC11! ~ "...as unique as an AoK scenario can get." - Panel ~ Official Rating: 4.2

Proud Member of BlackForestStudios
My AoE2 Youtube Channel
Feliks
Squire
(id: Joshooarh)
posted 04-20-13 06:31 AM CT (US)     25 / 142       
I'll give it a look.
Sebastien
Dark Samurai
posted 04-20-13 06:55 AM CT (US)     26 / 142       
I do not have AoE2 HD yet, so i can't flag or download anything, but can any of you compare THIS with My file, and see if they are the same?
They probably are, maybe. I know you're only curious, but you still wouldn't be able to report this as your file.

I've read a few comments in here, and all it's for is just to protect peoples work. Mainly trying to stop those passing someone else's file off as their own work.
Devious Dev
Official Professional Qualified Noob
(id: dragonslayermcmx)
posted 04-20-13 01:42 PM CT (US)     27 / 142       
I know you're only curious, but you still wouldn't be able to report this as your file.
Yeah, i wasn't planning to

D E V A S T A T O R
Paradise Lost ~ Scored 1st in the ACSC12! ~ Voted Best Cinematic Scenario of 2013 ~ Official Rating: 4.7
Demon Town ~ Scored 1st in the HHC11! ~ "...as unique as an AoK scenario can get." - Panel ~ Official Rating: 4.2

Proud Member of BlackForestStudios
My AoE2 Youtube Channel
MangyTheMangodel
Squire
posted 04-25-13 09:30 PM CT (US)     28 / 142       
I can only upload my stuff if I have bought the game on Steam, right?
CarolKarine
Squire
posted 04-25-13 09:44 PM CT (US)     29 / 142       
yeah.

Proud owner of Splash Splash XLIV: Leave it there for someone to find, Which is on record for being the fastest thread to reach 2500 posts - which was completed in 28 hours and 17 minutes, from start to finish!
Yeah, the republican party is pretty much one big schizophrenic ball of contradictions nowadays. - Ax_man1
double post for milestone, then relentlessly bash on the community for the hell of it... stay classy thymole. - Lurker
Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 04-26-13 00:25 AM CT (US)     30 / 142       
Yes, the uploading system is only available ingame.
Notoriousmrbaker
Squire
posted 05-21-13 04:16 PM CT (US)     31 / 142       
Hey, I was wondering how do you make units regenerate health? (non hero units) I saw the explanation on the FAQ, however I cannot put minus signs into the damage unit tab anymore. I'm not sure why, maybe this is a steam thing. If thats still possible it would be hugely helpful to me if you guys let me know.
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 05-21-13 04:32 PM CT (US)     32 / 142       
Check the other topic you made- I replied with an explanation.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
GameScraper
Squire
posted 06-11-13 07:39 AM CT (US)     33 / 142       
If I may ask, do you also think that hosting a game on Steam that includes your scenario is also a bad thing?
Since, the host shares the scenario to all of the players in the lobby and they can then host and share it even further and so on...

I do understand the point of this thread, but aren't your scenarios meant to be played and further sharing makes it available to new players (inside Steam)?

[This message has been edited by GameScraper (edited 06-11-2013 @ 07:41 AM).]

Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 06-11-13 08:06 AM CT (US)     34 / 142       
The issue is not with the sharing of scenarios through multiplayer, it's with the people who publish those (and singleplayer) scenarios through the Workshop without giving proper credit to the original author.
GameScraper
Squire
posted 06-11-13 09:41 AM CT (US)     35 / 142       
I don't mind if people share my work.

Of course it's nice if people ask my permission to re-share the scenario I made.
But still, mine are meant to be played, so I don't get offended if someone likes my work so much they wanna share it to even more players.

Besides, every one of my scenarios include link to my website and have my name in them, so no one can say they made them.
Unless they are very persistent and start to remove them from the file, adding their own stuff, resaving and reuploading.
But I believe these who do that are the very, very minor amount of people.

However, I've been making maps for about a month, so my view is just how I currently see things. Plus users here have years of experience on how some people might act towards one's scenarios.

However, I still won't change my mind about people who share my scenarios in their original format.

[This message has been edited by GameScraper (edited 06-11-2013 @ 09:44 AM).]

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