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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Discussion » The Designer's Tavern IV - Ask questions and discuss scenario design!
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Topic Subject:The Designer's Tavern IV - Ask questions and discuss scenario design!
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HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 07-04-15 04:56 PM CT (US)         




Welcome to the Designer's Tavern! After switching owners twice before and undergoing some time-consuming renovations, the tavern is now in our capable hands. Who are we? That's a good question! We are HockeySam18 and Mr Wednesday, your benevolent oligarchs hosts! Established by SonicShadow in 2005, taken over by Matt LiVecchi in 2009, and passed on to Lord Basse in 2010, the tavern is a place for the SD&M community to sit down, relax and have a sip of an imaginary pint of ale. This is the place for general discussion on scenario design; talk about whatever you want as long as it's related to scenario design, downloads in the Blacksmith, and the like. If you want to say something totally unrelated to scenario design, the Town's Crier is a fine place to go to instead.



Seminars_on_Designing_and_Trigger Tricks

Have a new discovery you want to share with the world? A design trick, a good way to design a fortress, or a trigger system? Perhaps you feel the need to address what you think is a problem with designing? Contact us via email or post a reply with the article! It doesn't have to be something brand new, but it shouldn't be something of common knowledge either, like "A Guide on Painting Water on your Map" (though that can propagate some interesting discussion in of itself)! Write a paragraph or three, add a screenshot and send it off, and we'll make sure it gets up here.

Past seminars:


Designing a realistic forest, by HockeySam18

Current seminar:

Utilizing off-grid placement to its full potential, by Mr Wednesday




Off grid placement is the most powerful tool to come along since Data editing. I opened AoKTS three times when doing my PTC entry, compared to hundreds or thousands of times when doing The Quiet Dawn. While all the effects I used in Smile No More (and that screenshot) were technically possible before, the simple truth is no one would ever have done them. When covering the Asian monastery to get only the statue, I could select trees that had the exact shape as the outline of the statue (or close enough) and essentially just paint over the stuff I didn't want. To do that once with AoKTS would have taken probably a couple days. I did it in dozens of spots.

Designers haven't really picked up on the full power of this yet I don't think. AoK has always had a very limited set of graphics, and we use the closest approximation to represent everything we don't have.

Except now, people need to start thinking of all the graphics as just 2D images. If any part of a graphic can represent what you want, or any combination of parts, you can make it happen. In that screenshot, the obvious choice for a treehouse is the Outpost. The sea tower is the next thing you logically think of. But the best looking part might be the Archery range, which is a perfect example of using one quarter of a graphic or less, and essentially making the rest disappear.

The only thing that matters anymore is the front image essentially, which consists of whatever parts are showing from all the images.

I'd caution that 99% of this is depth perception, so watch the shadows, where the bases hit the terrain, etc. Make sure there isn't anything showing that breaks the illusions you are creating.



Playtesters and Other Requests:

Feel free to ask here, I will add your request to the topic post if it doesn't get fulfilled quickly. Go ahead and link your project thread as well if you like!



Help with AI Scripting for Custom Scenarios

For anyone struggling with AI scripting, this tool by Jan dc allows you to generate a competent AI tailored specifically to the needs of your custom scenario.



Current Projects and Screenshots:

We'd love to see screenshots and hear teasers from your current projects or whatever you've felt like working on. Feel free to post them and we'll start up a list below!

- Storm on the Steppe - by HockeySam18

- The Battle of Senc Tor - by Aristeides

- Wrath of the Traibs - by Possidon

- Aethelflaed Modification and Campaign - by Mash

- Paradise Lost Remastered - by Devastator

- Pirate's Treasure - by PresterJohn

- Barbarossa - the campaign - by Paul_TD



Tavern Staff:
Owners - HockeySam18 and Mr Wednesday
Patron and Resident Viking - Leif Ericson
President of the Board - Dead_End
Board Members - Popeychops and John the Late
Chef - Major Helper

"Hot" Barmaids:
Prester John
Miathemother

Menu:
Steak and ale pie
Rack of lamb
Grilled venison
Roasted iron boar
Spam
Vegetable medley
...

Drinks:
Glass of wine
Pint of ale
Bucket of ale
Tub of mead
Cider
Tea
Coffee
Guarana

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1

[This message has been edited by HockeySam18 (edited 07-27-2017 @ 08:49 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Fundey
Squire
posted 02-25-16 06:13 PM CT (US)     666 / 1611       
How do you design elevation? Lately, I discovered a really cool method which offers extremely varied map relief, and being also relatively simple to utilize:

First, you decide the general outline for the relief, where the mountains are, where flatlands are, if you want to include some specific hills (for the fortress, tower).

You start a blank map, create water, and next step is elevation. You start on e1 which is a sea-level, choose a tiny brush for e2 and begin designing. The philosophy is to follow a real geographic height of the area with your desing. For the start, you only paint the outlines of the areas you want to have elevation 2 as your base height. Let the outlines have some really crazy shapes. If you have mountains or highlands somewhere, paint whole area and surroundings with it, however include some valleys to spice things up. Where you feel the area with only elevation 1 is too large, you can create smaller hills of e2. As the final step of this stage, you fill in the outlined e2 areas, so they are all on this level. In my designs I usually cover about 80-85% of land areas with e2.

In the next stage, you choose a tiny e3 brush and take e2 as your base. Consider the areas with e1 as final. Now, repeat the first step, don't be afraid to not follow the shape of your e2 areas too closely, create new hills and valleys. Don't paint your e3 too close to the e2 edges. I consider e3 to be still one of the acceptable heights for flatlands and a base terrain for mountains (meaning, in my mountains the height rarely gets under e3). E2 would cover much less than e2, usually around half of the map.

e4 is a kind of breaking point. You shouldn't paint big areas with it (only in certain mountainous regions), it should be a finishing touch for too large areas of flat e3 in lowland regions and serve as a base for "real" single mountains in mountainous regions.

e5 to e7 I usually use only to finish the mountains and highest hills, as the sizes of the e4 bases allow (I don't create them too big). I noticed that if you use a progression from e1 to e7 in a varied way and with a few tiles inbetween each height level, it creates an impression of a much higher hill than it really is!

The advantage of the method is that the terrain height changes in a non-obvious way, and it is very time-efficient. However, you need to be careful and memorize well, as after e3 you will start having troubles guessing what elevation level is what.

What do you think of this method? How do you design elevation?
Julius999
Imposter
posted 02-25-16 06:27 PM CT (US)     667 / 1611       
Most of the time, I do something similar to that. I don't design elevation across the whole map all at once, but I take roughly that approach within an area.

1010011010
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Member of Stormwind Studios
Mithril Knight
Squire
posted 02-25-16 07:14 PM CT (US)     668 / 1611       
What do you think of this method? How do you design elevation?
That's the method I use for elevation. This has the drawback of not being as effective if you are making a fantasy map, unless you plan your scenarios with great detail. If the map's terrain has been previously documented, this is the easiest way to outline the general elevations of the map, though.

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HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 02-26-16 00:22 AM CT (US)     669 / 1611       
I always have the base elevation of the map as elevation 2, not elevation 1. That way you have the option to make small depressions in the ground without having to raise the elevation of the entire area around it.

Planning is always good, but above all you want to maintain a certain flow that keeps the map organic. You don't want it to seem systematized, though - a sense of entropy is always good. I actually draw hills by drawing a few tiles of the highest elevation I want on that hill and then filling out around it with lower elevations until you reach the base elevation.

I'll only place gaia objects after I've drawn the elevation, but a town or village gets designed before any elevation is drawn. Otherwise I find it too difficult to get the sort of building combinations I want.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
Lilthbehr
Squire
(id: Lildbehr)
posted 02-28-16 09:28 AM CT (US)     670 / 1611       
You start a blank map, create water, and next step is elevation.
I always finish the elevation first and like Sam use E2 as base. After that I draw out areas of water which are always on E1 so that I get that nice uphill shoreline. Later I add beach1 for shallow/tidal shores.

AN EVIL TONGUE IS A MAN'S BANE.
(The above poster is right, did you know that?)
Proud associate of Monsoon Studios

[This message has been edited by Lildbehr (edited 03-01-2016 @ 12:54 PM).]

Lilthbehr
Squire
(id: Lildbehr)
posted 03-06-16 01:15 PM CT (US)     671 / 1611       
Double post!

Just a brief question: Does the condition "Chance" from the HD expansions work in multiplayer?

AN EVIL TONGUE IS A MAN'S BANE.
(The above poster is right, did you know that?)
Proud associate of Monsoon Studios
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 03-06-16 01:36 PM CT (US)     672 / 1611       
I've never tried it myself, but I seem to recall Bumis and Tanks testing it a while back. I believe their principal find was that the condition was bugged and did not function as intended, requiring an elaborate workaround to make it usable.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
Lilthbehr
Squire
(id: Lildbehr)
posted 03-06-16 02:13 PM CT (US)     673 / 1611       
I figured it worked like this:

trigger1: no,on,no
e:activate trigger - 2,3,4,5

trigger2: no,off,no
c: Chance 25
e: deactivate trigger - 3,4,5
e: EVENT 1 with 25% chance

trigger3: no,off,no
c: Chance 25
e: deactivate trigger - 2,4,5
e: EVENT 2 with 25% chance

trigger4: no,off,no
c: Chance 25
e: deactivate trigger - 2,3,5
e: EVENT 3 with 25% chance

trigger5: no,off,no
c: Chance 25
e: deactivate trigger - 2,4,3
e: EVENT 4 with 25% chance

Does this not work?

AN EVIL TONGUE IS A MAN'S BANE.
(The above poster is right, did you know that?)
Proud associate of Monsoon Studios
MrMew
Huskarl
posted 03-06-16 11:38 PM CT (US)     674 / 1611       
So I was watching Spirit of the Law and I learnt that scorpions can damage trees. This occurs when a scorpion is killed after it has fired its bolt. You guys probably knew this, but I wanted to share. Apparently they can also destroy stone heads, but I haven't been able to recreate that.

Does anyone know if the Genitour and Elite Genitour was meant to be in the final game, or was accidentally left in judging by its militia graphics, cavalry speed, archer cavalry icon, and projectile?

Time of Tea
Still in the Dark Age
Don't be a melodramatic clown. ~Mr Wednesday
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 03-07-16 09:21 AM CT (US)     675 / 1611       
What the projectile actually hits/doesn't hit in that situation can be a bit arbitrary, especially considering the relatively small size of the scorpion projectile in the vanilla game. In African Kingdoms the projectile size was increased, which probably made a slight difference in the results seen in Spirit's video.

The Genitour/Elite Genitour that you find in the vanilla editor were originally intended to be the UU for the Spanish civ in AoK:TC, but were replaced by the Conquistador. My guess is they had added the unit to the data for initial testing using placeholder graphics and then just didn't feel like deleting it. Maybe they decided that it would be good to keep it as editor unit (similarly, the Frankish Paladin was supposed to be the Frankish UU before they replaced it with the Throwing Axeman, a reskin of the Dervish, which in turn had been replaced by the Mameluke as the Saracen UU) but didn't finish the graphics in time.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
SaintCurious
Squire
posted 03-10-16 06:03 AM CT (US)     676 / 1611       
Hi there!

I've been working for some time now on a campaign set in Brytannia where you control the Iceni revolting against Roman rule in 61BC. I've provided some screenshots below.



The Roman farms outside Camulodunum



The Amphitheater and Temple of Claudius in Camulodunum (Modern Colchester).



Part of the fabled 9th Legion


I am however having some issues. One of the triggers I'm trying to get to work is having the Romans (AI) create Legionaries.

The triggers I have are fairly simple.

Trigger:

Condition:
Unit: Elite Genoese Crossbowman Object in area =1 (area around the Roman Castle)
Effect: Remove object (Area again around Roman castle)
Unit: Elite Genoese Crossbowman
Effect: Create Unit (outside the castle door)
Unit Legionary
Effect: Task object (move the Legionary out of the way so the AI can repeat the process).
The trigger is active and looping.

The intention is of course, when the AI creates an Elite Genoese Xbowman it will be removed and replaced by a Legionary. The owning player is all correct.

However, this simply refuses to work. I recreated the exact same triggers where I would create a Elite Genoese Xbowman, the condition would activate (1 Elite Genoese Xbowman in area) and then remove it and replace it with a legionary at the castle door (who would then move to a designated spot). However I simply CANNOT get this to work with the AI, it completely ignores the condition like it cannot detect that an Elite Genoese Xbowman has been created and is in the area.

Is there any reason why this might be the case? I'm using AOK HD with FE and African Kingdoms.

[This message has been edited by SaintCurious (edited 03-10-2016 @ 06:03 AM).]

HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 03-10-16 11:55 AM CT (US)     677 / 1611       
Nice screenshots, and welcome to AoKH!

I can't comment too much on the specifics, as I'm unfamiliar with the graphical mods you have installed. As such when assessing pros and cons it's difficult to distinguish between what is design-related and what is graphics-related. Generally, I like the layout of the screenshots. I've never been a fan of the Italian watch tower graphics, but that's more of a graphical issue than a design issue.

As for the trigger issue, I'm not entirely sure what the culprit is. Perhaps the AI is training non-elite Genoese Crossbowmen, not the elite versions? Of course, it could be one of the legion (bad pun ) issues associated with AoE2HD at the moment. That said, when designing the Berber campaign for African Kingdoms I used a few similar trigger systems and they all worked for me.

Where exactly does the trigger system go wrong for you? Is the Genoese Crossbowman not removed at all? Is the Legionary not created? Is it not tasked? The more specific you are, the more I can be of help

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 03-10-16 12:10 PM CT (US)     678 / 1611       
Perhaps the AI is training non-elite Genoese Crossbowmen, not the elite versions?
That would do it. A unit that is upgraded is still regarded as the base unit in many ways, including in conditions.

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SaintCurious
Squire
posted 03-10-16 04:17 PM CT (US)     679 / 1611       
Ah it appears you were both right, I changed the Condition to Genoese Crossbowman and that seems to have fixed it! I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out why this wasn't working thank-you both much!
Mash
Huskarl
(id: Mashek)
posted 03-11-16 03:49 AM CT (US)     680 / 1611       
SaintCurious
Squire
posted 03-12-16 11:30 PM CT (US)     681 / 1611       
Thanks for everyone's kind words! Here are a few more screenshots from my campaign (without the Steam Texture packs).


Boudica leads her men South towards Camulodanum.


Meanwhile a Roman cohort await the Iceni intrusion.


A Roman Fortress in the city.


Many of the local Britons resent the harsh Roman rule and may seek to join Boudica's cause.


And deep within the forests, the Druids perform an ancient ritual to their pagan gods (scene inspired by dave_earl's excellent Macbeth Campaign).
ToukieToucan
Squire
posted 03-13-16 06:49 AM CT (US)     682 / 1611       

How do I make snow forests more interesting?

[This message has been edited by ToukieToucan (edited 03-13-2016 @ 06:55 AM).]

Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 03-13-16 09:43 AM CT (US)     683 / 1611       
I recommend taking a look at some pictures from real forests. What do they have that your forest lacks? This is a great subreddit for such pictures, just ignore the silly name. Here's a picture from there. Some things that immediately stand out are the bushes (the jungle terrain has two variants that are often used) and the ice. Forests often have small pools of water that freeze over in winter. Try recreating those.
A scenario I highly recommend is Andanu Trisatya's entry for the 2008 Pretty Town Contest. It has a great atmosphere and should definitely help you to get some new ideas!
Al_Kharn the Great
Squire
posted 03-13-16 10:28 AM CT (US)     684 / 1611       
You have limited winter objects in the editor so you need to maximize them.

I would use some regular green pines just to provide some variety. It is reasonable that not every tree will be snow-covered as long as you use these sparingly. Also, use the leafless versions of the oak trees as well to represent deciduous trees which lost their leaves.

If you are using HD with the African Kingdoms, there is a set of snow bushes as well.

In general for forests, group trees closer together. I am not sure if you are doing this, as you only show a limited slice of the forest, but a wide area of well-dispersed individual trees is not very realistic. Forests are dense of vegetation and while the undergrowth would not be present in winter, the trees should be fairly close. This is as long as it makes sense from a gameplay perspective, however.
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 03-13-16 11:32 AM CT (US)     685 / 1611       
Nice screenshots, guys!

In addition to what Al_Kharn said, it's key to be innovative with wintry scenes because of the limited number of terrains and objects. Leaves terrain used as paths through forests works especially well. Perhaps have some spots where small bits of other terrains (particularly dirts) are used to represent areas where there is thaw due to consistent sunlight.

In African Kingdoms there are a lot of new objects that can help you out with winter climates, so making use of those would be wise. Check out some of the higher rated scenarios here that use winter climates such as Halfdan, Gyda's Challenge, and Mash's Blood of the Bear for some inspiration.

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
ToukieToucan
Squire
posted 03-13-16 11:50 AM CT (US)     686 / 1611       
Too bad I dont have African Kingdoms (yet)

Thanks for all the tips, I've improved some features:

Here's my take on a waterfall design:

I think it could use some sea rocks and some fish.
The ctrl+s feature really came in handy here for placing pines on cliffs.

Small altar/shrine:


Improved hut:


Another question:

After using several layers of cliffs how do you 'get rid' (cant really come up with a better word) of the height so it looks like on 'normal' terrain again?


PS, I've had AOE2 for quite a long time and played it quite a bit as a child, I also sucked at making maps (everything in square: Towns, water you name it) and just generally being an 8 year old. I bought AOE2 on steam quite a while ago but didnt play it that much until now. Im still kind of bad in normal random games but I like to make some pretty-ish maps.

[This message has been edited by ToukieToucan (edited 03-13-2016 @ 12:02 PM).]

Dead_End
Cavalier
posted 03-13-16 02:23 PM CT (US)     687 / 1611       
Here's my take on a waterfall design:
Personally I prefer a bit more terrain underneath those cliffs. They seem to be floating. Putting a small patch of dirt, desert or beach underneath should give them a bit more depth. It's a matter of personal preference though.
Mike Oxhard
Squire
(id: Arnas)
posted 03-13-16 02:41 PM CT (US)     688 / 1611       
I bet it wouldn't look that way if it were vanilla cliffs. Nice improvement, by the way.

ToukieToucan
Squire
posted 03-13-16 04:19 PM CT (US)     689 / 1611       
@D_E right, will do that.

@Arnas as far I know these cliffs are my stock version with Forgotten Empires.
Pitt_Man
Squire
(id: Dark_Reign)
posted 03-13-16 07:32 PM CT (US)     690 / 1611       
As soon as you place terrain under those cliffs it's going to wreak havoc with those shallows

Can see improvements already in the few screenshots you've posted, keep it up!

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                   _ » The Continuous Screenshot Competition_. . . .________         
SaintCurious
Squire
posted 03-13-16 07:34 PM CT (US)     691 / 1611       
For winter scenes, I find blending different trees helps a lot.
Also looking at what winter forests look like can really be a good inspiration. For example below.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Winter_Forest_Near_Erzhausen_II.jpg

I also like to add flowers and flower beds beneath trees and mixing up ice, snow grass and snow dirt goes a long way to giving a frozen scene some more life

I've used the Forgotten Empires editor to create these two screenshots to illustrate what I like to do.





Just below is an experiment with off-grid placement

[This message has been edited by SaintCurious (edited 03-13-2016 @ 08:12 PM).]

HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 03-13-16 10:04 PM CT (US)     692 / 1611       
With regard to the waterfall discussion, having some rocks or sea rocks at the base of the cliffs can help ameliorate the "floating" issue a bit, though I would also lean towards putting some sort of terrain below them as well. This screenshot of mine might be of interest to you
as far I know these cliffs are my stock version with Forgotten Empires.
Presumably, Arnas was referring to the cliffs that ship with the CD version of the game (see my above screenshot for a visual example). They are still accessible in AoE2HD if you delete the HD cliff .slps, but the cliffs that Jorgito modeled for AoE2HD look plenty good as well.

D_R is right when he says that you're improving quickly, ToukieToucan. Keep up the excellent work!
I've used the Forgotten Empires editor to create these two screenshots to illustrate what I like to do.
Those look quite nice. You're really using off-grid placement to a high level of potential with various objects, and the effect is beautiful
Also looking at what winter forests look like can really be a good inspiration.
Agreed. Whenever I get back from a hiking, biking, or kayaking trip I'm always filled with inspiration due to the wondrous natural phenomena I've witnessed!

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies of one who has done well." - Hávamál

"Hockey is the only sport left for true men." - ax_man1
ToukieToucan
Squire
posted 03-14-16 00:59 AM CT (US)     693 / 1611       
I cant seem to see Saint Curious' pictures anyone know how to fix it?
SaintCurious
Squire
posted 03-14-16 01:47 AM CT (US)     694 / 1611       
Knaber
Squire
posted 03-14-16 03:05 AM CT (US)     695 / 1611       
@SaintCurious: Wow that's really nice!
SaintCurious
Squire
posted 03-14-16 05:01 AM CT (US)     696 / 1611       
@SaintCurious: Wow that's really nice! :

Thanks, I've just discovered how easy it was and have been going a bit nuts. Off-grid placement is so insanely easy and useful now!

devagrawal09
Squire
posted 03-14-16 05:21 AM CT (US)     697 / 1611       
Hey guys! I am designing my entry for DTS16, and I have a question. There is a tribe good at making crossbows, and I ( bit RPG-styled) have to go and ask the tribe leader if he will give me some of his soldiers. I want to know the possibilities of requirements that the leader can ask me to fulfill to give me control of his soldiers. For example, finding a relic, finding some sheep/turkeys/cows for food etc.
Just like the one on the first scenario of Genghis Khan campaign.

|E)\/
SaintCurious
Squire
posted 03-14-16 08:42 PM CT (US)     698 / 1611       
Hey guys! I am designing my entry for DTS16, and I have a question. There is a tribe good at making crossbows, and I ( bit RPG-styled) have to go and ask the tribe leader if he will give me some of his soldiers. I want to know the possibilities of requirements that the leader can ask me to fulfill to give me control of his soldiers. For example, finding a relic, finding some sheep/turkeys/cows for food etc.
Just like the one on the first scenario of Genghis Khan campaign.
Obvious ones of course are wipe out an enemy tribe, or creature that is menacing them? Maybe also destroy a bandit lair?

Alternatively you could have some sort of rescue mission? Maybe rescue a captured son/daughter of the leader? Or building on that idea maybe you could be paying a ransom on behalf of the leader and you have to escort a trade cart of goods? Perhaps then you have the option of paying off the ransomers or outright killing them (for maybe another bonus).

Maybe rounding up slaves or something for the tribe (if they are so inclined) or find a hidden treasure?
Pitt_Man
Squire
(id: Dark_Reign)
posted 03-14-16 10:28 PM CT (US)     699 / 1611       
Thanks, I've just discovered how easy it was and have been going a bit nuts. Off-grid placement is so insanely easy and useful now!
That's the most intense off grid placement I've ever seen! Haha
Obvious ones of course are wipe out an enemy tribe, or creature that is menacing them? Maybe also destroy a bandit lair?

Alternatively you could have some sort of rescue mission? Maybe rescue a captured son/daughter of the leader? Or building on that idea maybe you could be paying a ransom on behalf of the leader and you have to escort a trade cart of goods? Perhaps then you have the option of paying off the ransomers or outright killing them (for maybe another bonus).

Maybe rounding up slaves or something for the tribe (if they are so inclined) or find a hidden treasure?
Fantastic ideas. Great crossbows are easy to get with most civs if it's not a multiplayer game, depends on what research techs you give them (Bodkin arrow, padded archer armour etc.), why not make it a unique unit and you get plummed archers or longbowman or even chu ko nu? Depending on what type of tribe you're creating you can base the archers on that!

Here is a list of all the civ bonuses, there's several there that get archer/infantry bonuses with technologies that you can research for the tribe you're making to make the archers better.

  _ » Downloads_. . . .________             
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[This message has been edited by Dark_Reign (edited 03-14-2016 @ 10:28 PM).]

Mike Oxhard
Squire
(id: Arnas)
posted 03-15-16 11:21 AM CT (US)     700 / 1611       
I really love that picture of the jungle tree town.

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