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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Mod Design and Discussion » Age of Kings: Realms
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Topic Subject:Age of Kings: Realms
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Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 04-29-15 12:12 PM CT (US)         


Available on the Blacksmith
Moddb Page
Voobly Version

Join the Discord

Information spreadsheet

Full Credits


Age of Kings: Realms is a project to consider more of the medieval world. Built on Forgotten Empires, it brings the total number of civilizations to 42:


·Armenians- From Yerevan to Cilicia, defend your lands from a multitude of foes.

·Balts- Form a mighty commonwealth to subdue the encroaching crusader.

·Bamars- Command the rise of Pagan, Ava, Hanthawaddy, or Taungoo.

·Bohemians- Forge an invincible army powered by innovative tactics and the fervor of your people.

·Bulgars- Carve out a domain under the hooves of your armored cavalry.

·Burgundians- Raise a varied army from Europe's finest mercenaries.

·Chimus- Challenge the Inca for supremacy of the Andes.

·Dutch- Protect your economic interests with powerful militia armies.

·Helvetians- Revive the discipline of the phalanx in battles once ruled by mounted knights.

·Jurchens- Contend with the Han, Khitai, and Mongols for a Golden Dynasty.

·Khmers- Dominate Southeast Asia with vast armies, cultural strength, and mastery of war elephants.

·Malays- Establish a grand thalassocratic state across the islands of the Southeast.

·Mandinkas- Build an empire upon gold and salt.

·Moors- Strive with foes all across the Mediterranean.

·Muisca- Lead the armies of the Zipa or the Zaque to victory.

·Tamils- Control the land and the sea in the struggle for South India.

·Tufans- Descend from the Himalayas to forge an enduring empire.

·Turcomans- Rule Khanates from Anatolia to Manchuria.

·Viets- Drive out would-be conquerors with relentless guerrilla tactics and subterfuge.


In addition to the new teams, several other features are included:

Randomized variation of cliffs, wolves, birds and more in every random map

New architecture for many civilizations.

Custom random maps with capturable locations, respawning wildlife, and more!

Balance updates taking direction from the latest DLC changes.

Wonders are a bit more useful. Building a wonder will increase your population limit by 50 (65 for the Goths) and increase the amount of relic income slightly. Additional wonders increase your population by 25 and also offer more relic income. Be careful, though! Losing a wonder will nullify its bonus.

Many new editor objects and trigger effects are added.

Comes with an installer for simple setup.

[This message has been edited by Vardamir (edited 10-28-2018 @ 02:19 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 04-29-15 12:12 PM CT (US)     1 / 619       
Since long topic posts can be annoying, the new civ characteristics will be shown here:

Armenians
Cavalry Civilization

· 12 wood/min and 10 food/min automatically generate
· Knights and Castle units +0/1 Armor, +1/1 in Imperial Age
· Stable Techs cost -20%
· Monks 20% cheaper in Imperial Age

Unique Unit: Ayrudzi (cavalry)


Unique Techs: Asfin Al-Armani (Generate stone trickle, increase food, wood rate); Azatavrear (Cavalry +1 damage)

Team Bonus: Monasteries work 20% faster


Balts
Cavalry Civilization

· Buildings +2 LOS
· Cavalry move 10/15% faster in Dark/Castle Age
· Knights cost -10% Castle, -15% Imperial Age
· Fishing Ships 25% cheaper

Unique Unit: Vytis (anti-cavalry mounted skirmisher)


Unique Techs: Hillforts (Towers cheaper, palisades +60% hp); Voivods (Light Cavalry 5% faster, +0/2 armor)

Team Bonus: Knights +2 attack vs gunpowder units


Bamars
Archer and Monk Civilization

· +10 food when completing farms
· Monasteries 25% cheaper
· Foot Archers have 10/15/20% more health Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age
· Archery range techs cost -30%
· Mangonels/Onagers +60/90 attack vs buildings

Unique Unit: Howdah (cavalry)


Unique Techs: Stockade (Palisades stronger, 3X cost); Pwe-kyaung (Monks regenerate faith faster)

Team Bonus: Scorpions +15 attack vs buildings


Bohemians
Archer and Infantry Civilization

· Archery Ranges -20% cost
· +5 Villager hit points for each Town Center technology
· Heresy free
· Archers, hand cannoneers +1/2 pierce armor Castle/Imperial Age

Unique Units: Taborite (Infantry), Trestle Gun (Scorpion), Wagenburg (Tower)


Unique Techs: Tabors (Enable Wagenburg); Houfnice (Bombard Towers do extra damage vs rams)

Team Bonus: Barracks -15% cost


Bulgars
Cavalry Civilization

· Can create cows from town center
· Spearman, skirmishers, and light cavalry are created 33% faster
· Knights attack 20% faster
· Cavalry Archers +3 attack vs. spearmen

Unique Unit: Bagain (cavalry)


Unique Techs: Pirgos (Castles +2/4/3 armor); Auxiliaries (Light cavalry gain bonus vs. archers, villagers)

Team Bonus: Skirmishers +1 attack vs. cavalry archers


Burgundians
Diverse Civilization

· Dropsites work 2X faster
· Blacksmith Techs cost -50% less food
· Conscription free
· Siege units 15% faster
· Town Centers +2 attack
· Can access up to 3 other unique units

Unique Unit: Cranequinier (Cavalry Archer)


Unique Techs: Standing Army (Swordsmen, knights, cranequiniers +1/0 armor); Ordonnance Companies (Other unique units upgrade to elite)

Team Bonus: Unique units cheaper


Chimus
Infantry civilization

· Infantry +1/0 armor Feudal, +1/1 Castle, +2/1 Imperial Age
· Masonry and Architecture free
· Barracks techs -50% gold cost
· Repairers work 2X faster
· Villagers move 10% faster

Unique Unit: Chimor Warrior (infantry)


Unique Techs: Huacas (Increase building garrison room); Tlacochtli (Skirmishers 25% faster, +10 HP)

Team Bonus: Blacksmiths work 50% faster


Dutch
Infantry and Naval Civilization

· Infantry +1 attack in Feudal Age
· Castles +2000 hp
· Farms smaller, -10 cost, -45 capacity
· Cannon Galleon minimum range halved
· Militia line costs -10 gold, +10 food

Unique Units: Ruiter (Regenerating Cavalry), Beguine (Healer)


Unique Techs: Goedendag (Militia line have anti-cavalry bonus); Merchants (Trade units +30 hp, markets work faster)

Team Bonus: Economic buildings provide +5 population room


Helvetians
Infantry and Archer Civilization

· Houses 40% cheaper
· Spearman line +1 range
· Skirmishers +1/2 attack Feudal/Imperial Age
· Skirmishers benefit from Parthian Tactics

Unique Unit: Pike Square (infantry)


Unique Techs: Close Order Drill (Spearmen, Pike Squares +1/1 armor); Confederacy (Units +5 hp)

Team Bonus: Castles Work 20% faster


Jurchens
Cavalry Civilization

· Houses, Docks, Markets, and Town Centers build 40% more quickly
· Villagers +1/3 range in Dark/Feudal Age, benefit from Fletching, Bodkin Arrow, Bracer, Chemistry
· Husbandry free
· Petards -50% cost

Unique Unit: Tiefutu (cavalry)


Unique Techs: Guaizi Ma (Mounted units +10 hp); Sijiao Pao (Trebuchets +2 range)

Team Bonus: Mill, Mining and Lumber Camp build 50% more quickly


Khmers
Siege civilization

· Fishing Ships +15 carrying capacity
· Archer Line upgrades free
· Military units -5% cost in Feudal Age

Unique Units: Ballista Elephant (siege cavalry)


Unique Techs: Levy (Spearmen, Skirmishers, and Camels enabled at Town Center, Mining and Lumber Camps); Ballista (Ballista Elephants and scorpions +1 range)

Team Bonus: Scorpions +1 range


Malays
Naval and Infantry Civilization

· All food gathered 10% faster
· Can build Sea Towers
· Two-handed Swordsman upgrade free in Castle Age
· Fishing ships move more quickly
· Galleys +1/2 range in Castle/Imperial Age
· Man-at-arms upgrade free

Unique Unit: Pesilat (Infantry)


Unique Techs: Silat Melayu (Militia line moves 10% faster); Lantaka (Cannon units +10 attack)

Team Bonus: Trade cog collisions reduced


Mandinkas
Economic Civilization

· 5 population supported free
· Start with +150 gold, -150 food, +25 wood
· Villagers cost 50 gold
· Camels attack 20% faster
· Gold mines last 30% longer
· Trade units 2X move speed

Unique Unit: Horon (Quick infantry)


Unique Techs: Salt Trade (Enable gold trickle, Villagers 25% cheaper); Poison Arrows (Archers +2 attack)

Team Bonus: Universities work 80% faster


Moors
Cavalry Civilization

· Start with Berber Scout
· Buildings (except farms) cost -10% wood in Feudal Age
· Camels train 100% faster
· Transport ships 25% faster
· Light Cavalry attack 20% faster

Unique Units: Camel Archer (Anti-Monk and Villager Mounted Archer), Corsair Ship (Boarding Ship)


Unique Techs: Dawah (Monks +1 range); Blackguards (Spearmen, Knights +1 attack, +20 hp)


Team Bonus: Camels +4 LOS


Muisca
Archer Civilization

· Villagers work 6% faster
· Eagle Warriors 5/10/15% cheaper in Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age
· Thumb Ring free
· Projectiles move 30% more quickly

Unique Unit: Guecha (Archer)


Unique Techs: Usaque (Killed archers, swordsmen, and Guechas return 20% of their cost); Tejo (Eagle Warriors move 10% faster)

Team Bonus: Killed trash units return 10% of their cost.


Tamils

Archer and Naval Civilization

· Town Centers spawn 1 villager in Feudal/Castle Age; Town Centers built in Castle/Imperial Age spawn 2
villagers
· Archer line benefits double from Bodkin Arrow, Bracer, Chemistry
· Elephant Archers +15/20% hp in Castle/Imperial Age
· Careening Free

Unique Unit: Varu (cavalry)


Unique Techs: Thirisadai (Warships +10% hp); Wootz Steel (Infantry and cavalry +2 attack)

Team Bonus: Fishing traps hold +200 food


Tufans
Cavalry and Monk Civilization

· Cavalier upgrade available in Castle age
· Monks move 20% faster
· Cavalier, Paladin upgrade researches more quickly
· Heavy Cavalry Archer upgrade costs no food
· Stone lasts 50% longer

Unique Unit: Mastiff (war dog)


Unique Techs: Warrior Monks (Monks +5 monk armor); Nancheng Breeds (Mastiffs and Mounted Units +20 hp)

Team Bonus: Monks +10 hit points


Turcomans

Cavalry Archer Civilization

· Cavalry archers +1 attack
· Dropsites mobile
· All cavalry archer techhnologies -40% cost
· Free Scout/Camel/2 Cavalry Archers in Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age

Unique Unit: Ulan (cavalry archer)


Unique Techs: Scorched Earth (cavalry +10 bonus vs. economic buildings, enemy villagers -5 hp); Bactrian Camelry (Camels +3 attack)

Team Bonus: Villagers can construct rams


Viets
Defensive civilization

· Villagers have +3/7/12 attack Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age
· Trees last 2X longer
· Can construct sea walls and gates
· Castles, Town Centers, monasteries, and palisades regenerate
· Elite Skirmisher upgrade free
· Foot, Elephant Archers and Hand Cannoneeers move 10% faster

Unique Units: Thân Co (Hand Cannon), Diêp Viên (Spy)


Unique Techs: Hich Tuong Si (Foot archers +5 attack vs ships); Tam Giáo (Monks can convert siege and buildings from range)

Team Bonus: Infantry +2 LOS

[This message has been edited by Vardamir (edited 09-12-2018 @ 10:15 PM).]

Aleph
Squire
posted 04-29-15 12:25 PM CT (US)     2 / 619       
I'm not really interested in the mod, but I feel the need to point out the obvious imbalance of some of the civ bonuses.
· Knights and Castle units +1/1 Armor, +2/3 in Imperial Age
overpowered
· Monks 40% faster
· Cavalier upgrade free in Castle age
· Paladin upgrade free
ridiculously overpowered

I do like the scorpion and repair bonuses, though.
DJeronimo
Banned
posted 04-29-15 12:46 PM CT (US)     3 / 619       
good thing vardamir. i will follow this
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 04-29-15 01:44 PM CT (US)     4 / 619       
First off, thanks for the feedback, Aleph! Balancing isn't that great at the moment and it's nice to get some more opinions.

I copied these lines from a convenient .dll that was a bit outdated. The Armenian armor has been fixed, although I see a few other issues that I can't change at the moment.

I did try to mitigate those OP bonuses a bit with the tech tree. Armenians lack husbandry, bloodlines, and conscription; while the Tufans lack bloodlines, fervor, and crossbow. They could easily still be too strong, though.
Excelsior
Squire
posted 04-29-15 01:47 PM CT (US)     5 / 619       
Meh, balance is rarely great on the very first try. Keep working on it, and I'm sure it will be a great expansion mod.

"It looks like a huge shark just took a bite out of Excelsior's ass"-Colonel Kyle Riggs, Star Force: Storm Assault
TriRem
Huskarl
posted 04-29-15 03:06 PM CT (US)     6 / 619       
Didn't try it a lot but there is a pretty important bug : in the scenario editor, the game crashes when you select "others" in the units menu. It must be because you have an invalid unit unhidden in the editor, it did it to me once.
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 04-29-15 07:50 PM CT (US)     7 / 619       
Thanks for the report! I had some placeholders that were causing the issue, so I'll release a fix for that soon.
Mahazona
Squire
posted 04-30-15 01:34 AM CT (US)     8 / 619       
Some pics of the UU's new buildings etc would be nice.I will check on this mod when I have little more time.
MrMew
Huskarl
posted 04-30-15 05:34 AM CT (US)     9 / 619       
The Helvetians unique unit is kind of over powered, especially with its fast production time. Also they are described as an infantry nation yet get all archer yep units and can't get past long swordsman.

Time of Tea
Still in the Dark Age
Don't be a melodramatic clown. ~Mr Wednesday
Mike Oxhard
Squire
(id: Arnas)
posted 04-30-15 06:57 AM CT (US)     10 / 619       
Balts
Cavalry Civilization

· Buildings +2 LOS
· Cavalry 15% faster
· Knights cost -10% Castle, -15% Imperial Age
· Fishing Ships 10/20/30% cheaper Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age
Which century will the balts be in?

Bala Arizalu
Squire
posted 04-30-15 07:06 AM CT (US)     11 / 619       
I would help you by provide Khmer voice, But it may be a bit long in the making.

Usac
Squire
posted 04-30-15 11:57 AM CT (US)     12 / 619       
I can't help but feel like a lot of these civ bonuses are familiar.


Granted, Cavalry having +2/3 armor wasn't as broken as in my full version when you realize that cavalry don't get Plate Barding, meaning the Imperial +1/2 was essentially free Plate Barding (this was so the civ wouldn't step on Persia's toes as the unique arbiter of Full Cavalry tech.)

http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=4,41737,,all


Now I'm not trying to start a problem, since there's technically no copyright, but you could've asked if you wanted to copy almost verbatim, and I likely would've said yes. danielpereira asked permission to use most of the bonuses for his Portuguese civ.
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 04-30-15 02:50 PM CT (US)     13 / 619       
A new update with the editor crash fixed has been submitted.

Usac, I didn't realize you had seriously tried to implement those ideas. I actually picked them up from older discussions. I still should have attempted to contact you about them. Sorry about that. If it helps any, your name was in my credits file.

Edit: Looking over my teams again showed how very close some are to your concepts. I started with your versions, but I thought I had changed them more. Apparently not.

Pike Squares are supposed to form a sizeable chunk of a Helvetian army, since they are otherwise lacking in heavy units. The team bonus may pull the train time down a bit too far, though.

Between Pike Squares and very strong spear units, I think it's fair to call the Helvetians an Infantry civ. I will add archers to that categorization.

The Balts are based primarily on Christianized Lithuania, not any particular century

[This message has been edited by Vardamir (edited 04-30-2015 @ 03:14 PM).]

Mike Oxhard
Squire
(id: Arnas)
posted 04-30-15 05:17 PM CT (US)     14 / 619       
If you're going for a christianized Lithuania I'd recommend changing the Bajoras to Vytis. Or maybe adding Bajoras in imperial age. Also you should consider adding something like an earth hillfort, or just a bonus to castles

Hades85
Squire
posted 05-01-15 02:55 AM CT (US)     15 / 619       
A couple of pictures to introduce your new civs would be nice. :-)
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 05-02-15 09:52 AM CT (US)     16 / 619       
Images of unique units have been added to the first post. Credit details are included in the downloads readme, but from top to bottom: Jorgito, Furik, Jorgito, Jorgito, AoF Team/AoE helepolis, Khan Ivayl.

Arnas: Vytis sounds like an improvement. While we're on renaming, can you think of a better name than Pospolite Ruszenie? It doesn't really fit with with the Balts until after Poland-Lithuania formed.

Hillforts as a unique tower/castle doesn't work in mind because they weren't very unique to Lithuania. I might change the building LOS to something like higher palisade hp, though.
Mahazona
Squire
posted 05-02-15 11:28 AM CT (US)     17 / 619       
I like the idea of the pike square does it count as 1 unit or 4?Also I feel all the units should look the same since its UU it looks odd with regular units combined.

How did you get that effect?By using annexed units?
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 05-02-15 12:01 PM CT (US)     18 / 619       
A pike square is one unit. It's accomplished with delta graphics, the same as the four in one mod.

It was a bit easier to avoid units overlapping oddly with mixed units, and I liked it better than four identical units. Using new spear graphics rather default ones is possible, but I don't mind the old ones.
MrMew
Huskarl
posted 05-03-15 03:56 AM CT (US)     19 / 619       
I'm getting a crash when attempting to start a match now, or the scenario editor. I've uninstalled it and reinstalled it, but it still crashes. Also I got a funny screen when attempting to start a game, the logo screen would be a funny colour.

Time of Tea
Still in the Dark Age
Don't be a melodramatic clown. ~Mr Wednesday

[This message has been edited by MrMew (edited 05-03-2015 @ 03:57 AM).]

Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 05-03-15 09:56 AM CT (US)     20 / 619       
That's odd. I do have the oddly colored loading screen, (not sure what happened there) but I haven't had any crashes. This is with 0.60b, correct? Do you have the c patch, and the latest userpatch?

If you do, have you tried redownloading? It could be that your installer got corrupted.


Usac, I've sent you s PM on AoCZone.

[This message has been edited by Vardamir (edited 05-03-2015 @ 10:13 AM).]

Mike Oxhard
Squire
(id: Arnas)
posted 05-03-15 12:51 PM CT (US)     21 / 619       
Vytis sounds like an improvement. While we're on renaming, can you think of a better name than Pospolite Ruszenie? It doesn't really fit with with the Balts until after Poland-Lithuania formed.
Can't come up with anything, but I know that Pospolite Ruszenie literally translates to "army" which is weird.
Hillforts as a unique tower/castle doesn't work in mind because they weren't very unique to Lithuania. I might change the building LOS to something like higher palisade hp, though.
Hillforts are very unique to lithuania. Some of the more known hillforts are: Apuole, Kernave, Ukmerge and Voruta

Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 05-03-15 12:59 PM CT (US)     22 / 619       
Are Lithuanian hillforts particularly different than those used by the Celts, for instance? I realize that they were used extensively in Lithuania, but they are found other places as well. I'm not opposed to adding a unique fortification, but I feel that a hillfort building would have to be available to a number of other civs.
Mike Oxhard
Squire
(id: Arnas)
posted 05-03-15 01:38 PM CT (US)     23 / 619       
No, I think they were primarily similar.

Aristeides
Squire
posted 05-03-15 01:56 PM CT (US)     24 / 619       
Looks interesting.Downloading now to try it.

EDIT: Really cool civs and units! the Pike Square is awesome!

Quality is not an act, it is a habit.

[This message has been edited by Aristeides (edited 05-03-2015 @ 02:20 PM).]

Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 05-23-15 11:11 AM CT (US)     25 / 619       
A new version has been released. The Tufans have been reworked quite a bit, and are hopefully not or at least less OP:

Tufans
Cavalry and Monk Civilization

· Cavalier upgrade free in Castle age
· Paladin, Heavy Cavalry Archer upgrade costs no food
· Stone lasts 50% longer

Unique Unit: Mastiff (war dog)

Unique Techs: Sangha (Monks 20% faster); War Dogs (Mastiffs +30 hp)

Team Bonus: Monks +5 hit points

The pike square has also been weakened considerably. It costs +10 food, has 12 seconds added to its buildtime, has lowered anticavalry and elephant bonuses. It also takes extra damage from heavy infantry, particularly champions.

The Balts building LOS has been replaced with a palisade hp increase.



There are also a few changes that don't affect gameplay. Most notably, Tzontlimixtli's Indian Building Set is incorporated and history sections for the new civs are implemented.

Thanks for your interest!
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 05-23-15 03:05 PM CT (US)     26 / 619       
This looks nice, Vardamir. It's cool to see AoF(E) inspiring projects like this! I'll give some general comments:

Hillforts
From a historical standpoint, fortifications that could be classified as hillforts were common to most of Europe during the early Middle Ages (see motte and bailey castles as a case study). Definitely not unique to the Baltic region. However, the Baltic region did have some impressive hillforts, so a bonus is probably not a bad idea.
The Balts building LOS has been replaced with a palisade hp increase.
I don't like this from a balance standpoint. Walling is OP enough as is. Extra building LoS is more balanced and is an interesting bonus that helps to defend rushes (spotting the enemy earlier) without being OP.

Armenian cavalry is probably a little OP at the moment with the bonuses. I'd add the armor bonuses to the UT (but make the UT cost a LOT). That UU had better cost a lot too - those stats make him seem like an absolute tank.

The Cavalry Archer UT for the Balts could probably use a little buffing. +1 AP for an already underpowered unit doesn't do much.

I love the Chimus. Their bonuses give me the impression that infantry might actually be a viable option for them, as opposed to most civs, who wouldn't use infantry outside of drushing, late Imperial, or some UUs.

The Pike Square is an interesting unit. I wonder if it will be used much, though - it's a very situational unit and the fact that it comes from the Castle means that it's probably easier (and cheaper) to just mass halbs. A Phalanx-style unit should actually be strong vs infantry, but weak vs archers. That would be cool as well, seeing as it flips the "swords kill pikes" model on its head.

Khmers look good. I'd comment more on the UUs for every civ except that I don't know many of their bonuses or hidden armor, etc - the type of stuff that the ingame interface doesn't show when the unit is selected.
Tufans
Cavalry and Monk Civilization

· Cavalier upgrade free in Castle age
· Paladin, Heavy Cavalry Archer upgrade costs no food
· Stone lasts 50% longer
Way, way, way OP. Cavaliers kill pretty much any Castle Age army. Having them available from the start of Castle is gamebreaking. The reduced upgrade costs also saves a whopping 2200 food, in addition to the free Cavalier upgrade. Way OP.
Levy (Spearmen, Skirmishers, and Camels enabled at Town Center, Mining and Lumber Camps)
Probably a little too strong (the mining and lumber camp bit) - it's a huge increase to production power.

~ Forgotten Empires ~

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Deyr fé, deyja frændr, deyr sjálfr it sama; ek veit einn at aldri deyr, dómr um dauðan hvern." - Hávamál 77.
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 05-23-15 05:37 PM CT (US)     27 / 619       
Thanks HockeySam! This is exactly the sort of feedback I was looking for.

By the way, while adding the new Indian Gates, I noticed that the "/" orientation (namely GTAX2 and GTAX3) build in 30 seconds rather than 70. This is still the case in 3.9F.


About your thoughts:

Balt palisades are still considerable inferior to stone walls at any given time, but you may have a point there.

Armenian Cavalry lack both bloodlines and husbandry, so I'm not entirely sure that they are OP at the moment. Certainly something to watch, though. Ayrudzi are 70f, 90g, BTW.

Balt Cavalry archers are already faster, so I don't want to overdo it. Depending on the Balts' overall strength, this tech could change.

The Helvetians lack lategame strong troops, so the idea is that pike squares are a way to add overall health to a trash backbone. It was well worth its cost before this nerf, but I suspect it's still quite a strong unit.

Greek Phalanxes were quite effective against heavy infantry, but late Swiss Pike formations and their copies tended to be countered with swordsmen, especially two-handers. Besides, gameplaywise, using cavalry to counter pike squares is a very bad plan, and the exceptional skirmishers might make archers a difficult proposition, though archers can kill pike squares reasonably well. Pike squares have enough health to stand up to some siege fire, so I thought I'd magnify their overall weakness to infantry.

That nerf may have been a bit much, but if they were adept at killing infantry, not much would take them down. Besides, an infantry killing infantry that dies horribly to archers seems so... Aztec.

I'm interested to see how people end up using Levy. The Khmers aren't blessed with strong versions of those particular units, and the gather points can't be used except to garrison in the production building, so I'm not sure how strong it really is.

It appears the Tufans will need another set of nerfs.
They have essentially nothing helping them until the Castle Age, and not too many options besides their cavaliers. No crossbows, no bloodlines for their camels and light cav, and fast monks will now take some investment.

Of course, high attack knights with pike-killing mastiffs more than compensates those weaknesses. Maybe they'd be better off with bloodlines and free cavaliers in the Imperial Age. I don't really want them to end up as only worthwhile in the Imperial age, but I might have to. Maybe if I linked the cavalier upgrade to building a castle?

I could just make the Paladin upgrade research more quickly to keep a temporary advantage. I don't feel that the heavy cav archer discount is a problem, though- lacking bloodlines and bracer, its more the only way their abysmal archery range will get any use.
Mahazona
Squire
posted 05-23-15 09:45 PM CT (US)     28 / 619       
Just curious why do the Khmers have camels?
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 05-24-15 03:09 PM CT (US)     29 / 619       
By the way, while adding the new Indian Gates, I noticed that the "/" orientation (namely GTAX2 and GTAX3) build in 30 seconds rather than 70. This is still the case in 3.9F.
Interesting. Passed it on
Balt palisades are still considerable inferior to stone walls at any given time, but you may have a point there.
Doesn't matter. It's still way more convenient to wall with Palisades as they cost only 2 wood as opposed to 5 stone. Stronger palisades make walling in the early game even stronger than it already is. Incidentally, this is one of the reasons that we scrapped the palisade wall upgrade in AoF back in 2012 or so (you can find the building in the editor and in some scenarios still).

Re specific units, some of my feedback may not apply, given that I know nothing about their specific bonuses and the civ's tech tree. The Ayrudzi looks way too strong for that cost, but then again massability is an issue. Missing Bloodlines and Husbandry is a huge blow to the viability of their Knights and Scout-line, though, even with their bonuses. I'd almost certainly go Crossbows in Castle Age instead.

Any UT that adds just +1 attack is fundamentally flawed due to the fact that it's usually just not worth the cost. Blacksmith techs do more and cost less. Range (see the Briton, Magyar and Indian UTs) is a different story as outranging your enemy is so crucial. I'd beef up the effect of the UTs that add only +1 AP to certain units.
Greek Phalanxes were quite effective against heavy infantry, but late Swiss Pike formations and their copies tended to be countered with swordsmen, especially two-handers.
Greek Phalanxes were the heavy infantry. The name Hoplite (the soldier-type of which Phalanxes were comprised) itself derives from the large amount of equipment they carried. The combination of being well-equipped and disciplined allowed smaller Greek armies to defeat larger Persian forces, for example, the majority of whose protective armor amounted roughly to tinfoil. Late-Medieval Pike Squares were countered not by swordsmen (the range of the pikes and their close formation would shred forces of swordsmen in most cases) but by the emergence of the "pike and shot" combined arms tactic that would dominate the battlefield for a good while.

Skirms do not solve the issue of vulnerability to archers, and this is why:

Imagine two armies facing off. One is comprised of units A (Archer-line) and B (Knight-line) and the other is comprised of units C (Pike Square) and D (Skirm-line). The array is like this:

AB | CD

Ranged units are hardcoded to autofire at the enemy unit closest to them. This means that the archers (A) will be shooting at the enemy Pike Squares (C), while the Skirms (D) will be shooting at the enemy Knights (B). Naturally, this will result in many kills for army AB and next-to-no kills for army CD. By the time the armies actually get to a melee fight, most of the Pike Squares will be wounded or dead and the combination of Archers and Knights will kill off the Pike Squares and then the Knights shred the Skirms. It's partially for this reason that the Crossbow-Knight combo is used in Castle Age over the Pike-ESkirm combo (and because the Crossbow upgrade is so cheap, while the ESkirm upgrade is so expensive).

The better Imperial combo for Helvetians will likely end up being Pike Square - Halb - Siege. Rams in front can tank arrow fire, while Onagers and Scorps will mow down infantry/archers and the spear units beat cavalry. The Celts operate under a similar philosophy. In a similar vein, the Kamayuk-Onager combo for Incas and the Genoese Xbow - Onager combo for Italians is hard to counter without Bombard Cannons.
Besides, an infantry killing infantry that dies horribly to archers seems so... Aztec.
Agreed. It's a shame that Jaguar Warriors rarely appear unless as a counter to EEW raiding or Goth infantry spam, and even in these cases Champs are better (though either way Goths will win cost-effectively and production-wise).
I'm interested to see how people end up using Levy. The Khmers aren't blessed with strong versions of those particular units, and the gather points can't be used except to garrison in the production building, so I'm not sure how strong it really is.
Interesting. You should talk to Daniel Pereira about the .exe edits required to fix the gather points, to polish up the feature a bit.
It appears the Tufans will need another set of nerfs.
They have essentially nothing helping them until the Castle Age, and not too many options besides their cavaliers. No crossbows, no bloodlines for their camels and light cav, and fast monks will now take some investment.
Give them bloodlines, remove the free cavalier bonus, and give them an eco bonus early on. Even without Bloodlines the free Cavalier in Castle Age would be way OP. Every game would go Drush-wall-FC-Cavaliers- gg. Free cavalier upon hitting Imperial might not be too OP, but reduced cost of all stable techs is probably the way to go.

Even with the heavy cav archer discount, nobody would ever use HCA when lacking both Bloodlines and Bracer. Cavalry Archers are underused anyways because they cost too much except for Huns (for whom they are OP). Note that when I talk about Cavalry Archers I mean the Cavalry Archer-line, not the UUs classed as Cavalry Archers.

EDIT: Just noticed this:
· Coinage, Banking Free
Dispense with this bonus and send it to the bowels of oblivion - slinging is way too strong already and this bonus will turn the Helvetians into slingers every TG.

~ Forgotten Empires ~

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Deyr fé, deyja frændr, deyr sjálfr it sama; ek veit einn at aldri deyr, dómr um dauðan hvern." - Hávamál 77.

[This message has been edited by HockeySam18 (edited 05-24-2015 @ 03:11 PM).]

Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 05-25-15 03:04 PM CT (US)     30 / 619       
Maybe your problems with the Balts have the same solution... What about a hillfort-related unique tech, which could drastically decrease the cost of towers (maybe by 50 or 75 stone), accompanied by bringing back the LOS bonus over the palisade hp. Too late for OP trushing, but it could make small fortifications viable in the later stages of the game. The tech could possibly increase palisade hp some as well, not sure if it would be a problem in those circumstances.

The Armenians had bloodlines until shortly before release, but I was worried about their knights taking 60 crossbow bolts (with equal blacksmith upgrades). If lacking it makes them too weak, enabling it (and knocking 20 hp off Ayrudzi) is certainly an option. No husbandry though- I like the idea of slow, powerul Armenian heavies. Besides, I want the Franks to keep at least arguably the best paladins.

I think I will remove the pike square's new weakness. After a bit more testing, it doesn't really seem necessary. Zweihänders will need a bit more effort to open a path.

Levy doesn't need any exe hacks. The behavior arises because I used 0 hp copies of the units that decay into the normal versions. I didn't want the Khmers to be able to make a forward pike production base at almost half cost and less than half size too easily. Besides, this way the copies can have IDs over 900. I would need an exe hack to add mills, which were in the original plan.

The Swiss banking bonus should indeed go. It's been there a while, but I'd forgotten about it since the people I usually play with don't sling.


The Tufans... the free cavalier bonus amounts to +1 attack more than a Magyar knight, which doesn't seem gamebreaking at first glance. It does help a lot, though. Of course, in order to implement your suggestions I need an early economic bonus, which are pretty hard to think up at this point. I'll ponder it over some. Reduced stable tech prices is an Armenian bonus, BTW.
Every game would go Drush-wall-FC-Cavaliers- gg
Just curious, how do think this would go if the Tufans couldn't build militia?

Finally, I don't really expect people to use Heavy cavalry archers much. It's just that their base archers are even worse, so I thought I'd make a ranged option a bit more attractive. Besides, it paralleled the paladin bonus so nicely!


Mahazona, Khmers have camels because they did in Usac's concepts, which I drew heavily from. Looking at the range of the camel, the fact is a bit off, although I suppose the trade with India could have supplied a few. Tufan camels don't really belong either... there's a good chance they won't make it to the next patch.
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 05-25-15 06:13 PM CT (US)     31 / 619       
Maybe your problems with the Balts have the same solution... What about a hillfort-related unique tech, which could drastically decrease the cost of towers (maybe by 50 or 75 stone), accompanied by bringing back the LOS bonus over the palisade hp. Too late for OP trushing, but it could make small fortifications viable in the later stages of the game. The tech could possibly increase palisade hp some as well, not sure if it would be a problem in those circumstances.
This sounds good. Towers themselves need major rebalancing, as they are well-balanced in Feudal but Guard Towers and Keeps are practically useless playing as Japanese with the Yasama UT in AoF.
The Armenians had bloodlines until shortly before release, but I was worried about their knights taking 60 crossbow bolts (with equal blacksmith upgrades). If lacking it makes them too weak, enabling it (and knocking 20 hp off Ayrudzi) is certainly an option. No husbandry though- I like the idea of slow, powerul Armenian heavies. Besides, I want the Franks to keep at least arguably the best paladins.
Knights should be able to tank Crossbow fire, though - the fact that massed Crossbows can kill an equal number of Knights is a major problem in Castle Age warfare anyway. I'd take 20HP off the Ayrudzi and give them Bloodlines. The "miss Bloodlines but have a high HP, tanky cavalry UU" is very Byzantine anyway. I agree with you re Husbandry, though. You could actually just disable Paladin for the Armenians altogether, which would probably encourage Ayrudzi use (otherwise I'd always use Paladins because they are more massable).
Levy doesn't need any exe hacks. The behavior arises because I used 0 hp copies of the units that decay into the normal versions. I didn't want the Khmers to be able to make a forward pike production base at almost half cost and less than half size too easily. Besides, this way the copies can have IDs over 900. I would need an exe hack to add mills, which were in the original plan.
Ah, interesting workaround. I like the way you have this working
Just curious, how do think this would go if the Tufans couldn't build militia?
Disabling the entire sword-line? Probably not a good idea. Not allowing them Militia makes it hard to defend the drush on open maps, though palisading up your base can usually stop a drush anyway, in which case it would go wall-FC-Cavaliers-gg. Walling in the early game is just way too strong
Finally, I don't really expect people to use Heavy cavalry archers much. It's just that their base archers are even worse, so I thought I'd make a ranged option a bit more attractive. Besides, it paralleled the paladin bonus so nicely!
Sounds good, actually. Makes their HCA a bit more viable for trade raiding

~ Forgotten Empires ~

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Deyr fé, deyja frændr, deyr sjálfr it sama; ek veit einn at aldri deyr, dómr um dauðan hvern." - Hávamál 77.
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 06-08-15 09:02 PM CT (US)     32 / 619       
Version 0.62 is up. This one is mostly balance changes:

Pike squares no longer have eagle warrior armor
Ballista Elephant are affected by chemistry

Armenians: receive bloodlines, (elite) Ayrudzi -20 hp

Balts: Use Slavic buildset
Balts: Palisade bonus removed, building LOS restored
Balts: New Castle UT- Hillforts (Towers cost -75 stone Outposts cost no stone, palisades +60% hp)

Helvetians: removed free coinage/banking

Tufans: Paladin upgrade researches faster, costs food again
Tufans: militia line disabled. Consequently, barracks are not avaliable until the Feudal Age

Byzantines: New monastery graphic by The_Nomad
New Armenian soundtrack
Vardamir
Huskarl
posted 08-08-15 08:15 PM CT (US)     33 / 619       
Version 0.80 has been uploaded, with some significant changes:

The install process has been streamlined by including UserPatch and a separate exe (Big thanks to Daniel Pereira!)
Tufans no longer have access to camels
Ballista Elephant attack graphic updated
Ayrudzi has new graphics, courtesy of Achesun
Ayrudzi anti-archer bonus restricted to cavalry archers

It also includes two more teams, the Dutch and the Jurchens:

Dutch
Infantry Civilization

· Infantry +1 attack
· Castles +2000 hp
· Farms smaller, cheaper, hold less food
· Militia line costs -10 gold, +10 food

Unique Units: Ruiter (Regenerating Cavalry), Beguine (Healer)


Unique Techs: Goedendag (Militia line have anti-cavalry bonus); Merchants (Trade Carts +30 hp, markets work faster)

Team Bonus: Economic buildings provide +5 population room

The Dutch use voices and several buildings from Age of Chivalry that Kor graciously allowed me to borrow.


Jurchens
Cavalry Civilization

· Docks, Markets, and Town Centers build 40% more quickly
· Villagers +3 range, benefit from Fletching, Bodkin Arrow, Bracer, Chemistry
· Husbandry free
· Petards -50% cost

Unique Unit: Tiefutu (cavalry)


Unique Techs: Guaizi Ma (Mounted units +10 hp); Sijiao Pao (Trebuchets +2 range)

Team Bonus: Mill, Mining and Lumber Camp build 50% more quickly


Thanks for your interest!

AoK: Realms
Adds Armenians, Balts, Bamars, Bohemians, Bulgars, Burgundians, Chimus, Dutch, Helvetians, Jurchens, Khmers, Malays, Mandinkas, Moors, Muisca, Tamils, Tufans, Turcomans, and Viets

Proteus and Genie Converter - AKX installers for modern times

[This message has been edited by Vardamir (edited 08-09-2015 @ 04:14 PM).]

adamproxdude33
Squire
posted 08-09-15 12:30 PM CT (US)     34 / 619       
U could add few more
Benin Empire
Majapahit Empire
Serbian Empire
The toltecs
The Huastecs
do u think that would be a good idea
which one are u gonna add
HockeySam18
Dúnadan
posted 08-09-15 12:40 PM CT (US)     35 / 619       
Vardamir, those new civs look quite interesting. It's cool to see you keep working on this!

On a side note, as a fellow Tolkien fan, I couldn't help but notice your player name as "The Mormegil"

~ Forgotten Empires ~

Storm on the Steppe | Galderton Hill RP | Proud member of Stormwind Studios

"Deyr fé, deyja frændr, deyr sjálfr it sama; ek veit einn at aldri deyr, dómr um dauðan hvern." - Hávamál 77.
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