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Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » The University » The double negative effect. units with negative IDs (Approved)
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Topic Subject:The double negative effect. units with negative IDs (Approved)
Nixck
Squire
posted 06-21-11 10:51 AM CT (US)         
This article has been approved and can also be read at the University. - Leif Ericson

Tutorial download link
The Hero's Inventory download

Finally after discovering this by accident, 5 years ago, I am releasing a tutorial on how to make units have negative IDs and the tricks that come along with this. I have used this trick in a couple of my maps, such as The Heatlh Potion Trick. But what is the double negative effect? It's when you give units/buildings negative unit IDs, whether by themselves or paired up with another unit to achieve new AoK tricks. I would not suggest new map makers try this because it is confusing, sometimes irritating, and you need to have a couple programs installed. First off you need to have Trigger Studio and GeniED installed on your computer. I suggest you also install Aokts with s_t_c's addon because it's really useful anyways. Now here are the steps to make negative ID unit pairs(with pictures too!)

Step 1: Run GeniED and unhide all units from editor.
example

Step 2: Go ingame and drop a projectile down. (i always use an arrow)
example

Step 3: Load up AoKTS and look at the arrow you placed.
example

Step 4: Change the arrow to an archer (any non projectile works)
example

Step 5: Drop 2+ more arrows ingame and return to AoKTS. You will now have a set of units with the same negative ID. Delete the remainder.
example


Now you are ready to start making some new tricks. Change the units around to however you see fit. Most of these tricks need to have a pair of units with the same negative ID except trick #3 in the tutorial. The easiest thing you can achieve is garrison both of these units into a normal unit and you can unload them indefinitely. As far as I understand, when two units have the same negative ID, they are basically the same unit now. However one of the units acts as a dominate unit and the other is recessive. Example, if you garrisoned both the negative ID units into a normal unit and try to ungarrison them, one will remain garrisoned in the unit and have its icon, and the other will be unloaded. So sometimes you may have to switch the units to get the icon or effect you want. Note that you can use buildings for icons but they get the icons of units sometimes for whatever reason. Read the scenario instructions in the map to achieve each specific trick. I have not done a lot of testing on this double negative effect in the editor, almost no testing in multiplayer, and zero testing with campaigns. This is where I need your help.

There are a lot of oddities that happen with negative ID units. The first is that you cannot select them, unless you own the object and then it is only selectable with the comma "," or period button "." Another is the stupid "unable to unload" error that happens for whatever reason. An example of this is at the end of the tutorial. Also when a trigger with a remove object effect goes off, it sometimes gives the same "unable to unload" message to things that would normally work. In addition, negative ID gaia units DO NOT convert to the player's control when a unit is in range. Good for making a town or other graphical use in a map with 8 human players. Play around with this system (negative ID unit pairs) and find out for yourself what happens and what is possible!

Credits to Scenario_t_c for helping me 5 years ago and Hawk_KK for this post because after I discovered the double negative effect years ago, I didn't know how to do it again (make units have negative ids) until i read this, hence why I didn't release this until now.

Good luck! Post any questions, new discoveries, tricks, bugs, and etc here or email me (check my profile)

[This message has been edited by Leif Ericson (edited 01-21-2012 @ 04:33 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
sathcooperation
Squire
posted 06-21-11 08:58 PM CT (US)     1 / 13       
I created a -2 unit, which gone for 4294967293 when i gone for task ob in AOKTS, I think the magical no. for this can be either 4294967291 or 4294967295.
You are testers, you can see to that :P

Member of well known Black forest Studio

My Projects
Paradise Lands

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Nixck
Squire
posted 06-21-11 10:58 PM CT (US)     2 / 13       
yep, i noticed that happens on AOKTS where it comes up as that. magic number came into my mind but i don't know anything about that so someone please look over this and give their input on magic #s
Leif Ericson
Seraph Emeritus
posted 06-22-11 04:43 AM CT (US)     3 / 13       
This thread has a pretty good list of the magical numbers in AoK. I'm sure there have been more numbers found since then, though.

I've added the article to the queue. I'll try to get up within a couple days.

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Nixck
Squire
posted 06-22-11 09:21 PM CT (US)     4 / 13       
-4294967296(sum): Should it is entered in the reversed effect "Damage Object", the unit (despite how many its maximum hit point is) will become invincible as a "HP0/X" (some of them won't have their hp shown as this, but the effect is the same) unit, which can be done by other trigger tricks. Always set by 8 x -536870912.
-4294967297(sum): Same as -1.
4294967296: Treated as 0 by the effect "Damage Object".
Supplement by CrystalCrown(HG Cherub):
4294967296: Beside using as a 0 in the effect "Damage Object", it can also be used as an overflow number for Negative "Tributes" effect.

Is what scen_t_c has about those numbers, no help there really. I think i'm gonna email him, seeing as how he helped me with this years ago
Leif Ericson
Seraph Emeritus
posted 07-08-11 05:14 PM CT (US)     5 / 13       
The article has now been added to the University. Check it out Nixck and let me know if you like it.

~`o~|\  Join the fresh and exciting AI Ladder for its fourth season!
 `  |_\
       |    Learn the joy of AI scripting in my guide: The World of AI Scripting
______|______
 \        /
   .....Hinga Dinga Durgen! - SpongeBob
  `-=<.__.>=-
Nixck
Squire
posted 08-10-11 03:42 PM CT (US)     6 / 13       
Put a smile to my face when i saw my article on blast when i went to my home page the other day
Nixck
Squire
posted 01-20-12 07:29 AM CT (US)     7 / 13       
New addition, negative ID gaia units DO NOT convert to the player's control when a unit is in range. Good for making a town or other graphical use in a map with 8 human players.
Leif Ericson
Seraph Emeritus
posted 01-21-12 04:34 AM CT (US)     8 / 13       
Do you like where I placed the addition (the last large paragraph)?

~`o~|\  Join the fresh and exciting AI Ladder for its fourth season!
 `  |_\
       |    Learn the joy of AI scripting in my guide: The World of AI Scripting
______|______
 \        /
   .....Hinga Dinga Durgen! - SpongeBob
  `-=<.__.>=-
SummSumm
Squire
posted 12-16-12 06:11 PM CT (US)     9 / 13       
Hmmm, what happened here? Noone is really interested in this? Or why are there no new posts here since 1 year?


I really love this, and i think there must be many more things possible to do with.

One thing could be to do this with positive id's. You would only need a lil change to aokts to let it change ids.

Or any other tool wich could change ids of units would make many new possibilitys.


Does anyonw know about a tool wich is able to change unit ids?

Are there any new tricks/informations about this not written here yet?

I didnt find any informations about this except this thread in the whole net

[This message has been edited by SummSumm (edited 12-16-2012 @ 06:11 PM).]

Feliks
Squire
(id: Joshooarh)
posted 12-18-12 05:48 AM CT (US)     10 / 13       
Hmmm, what happened here? Noone is really interested in this? Or why are there no new posts here since 1 year?
University articles tend not to garner any discussion once approved as almost all exist here solely to be absorbed into the university as static articles. Questions like the ones that you have asked should probably be redirected to SD&M. Feel free to just go ahead and make a new thread there. Doubtless there will be lots of friendly people who can answer your questions.
SummSumm
Squire
posted 12-18-12 02:45 PM CT (US)     11 / 13       
i was specially interested in some old discussions about this. The old Forumtopic is in the archive, so not possible to awnser there, thats why i did here.

Well, if its really needet i will make a new post in the modding forum then
Nixck
Squire
posted 12-24-12 05:04 PM CT (US)     12 / 13       
@SummSumm, if you have any questions you can email me at toxiity657@yahoo.com
I haven't found any new tricks really but the current ones still stand:

~Ability to make units unclickable
~Make gaia units unconvertable when walking near
~Control projectiles
~"Summon" units i.e. unload them next to your main unit indefinitely
~Give units garrisoned units that do not ungarrison (I use this as spells in a couple of my scenarioes. Heavily trigger dependent)
~Make units able to "glide"

I'm sure there are others but I haven't been working on aoktc maps in about a year.
Lobster_Emperor
Squire
posted 11-08-19 06:30 AM CT (US)     13 / 13       
Images are gone. That's really sad, because I have no idea what I'm doing.
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